Posted By vaeran on 30 Mar 2011 12:56 AM
Anyone who claims that they do not are either sociopaths or liars. As an INTJ, I have trouble incorporating feelings into a decision-making process. I generally tend to do things that I think are right, regardless of how they make me feel. I've made decisions that left me absolutely devastated for almost a year, but I'm okay with it because I believe I made the right choice. To me, feelings are transient and constantly changing, so decisions or policies based on feelings may be more prone to inconsistencies. If I use logic, I can always rationalize how I came to get to point B from point A. Any rate, my point is: emotions are there in full force, but they seldom trump the reason card.

As far as outward expression goes, I'm an emotional cripple. People don't see me as stoic, and I don't mind playing the joker so long as we're laughing together. But with raw, personal feelings, it's like pulling teeth. I just don't WANT show emotions more than I have to. It's very awkward and uncomfortable. In fact, it makes me feel downright retarded. You could probably get a bigger outburst of emotion from a doorknob than you could from your average INTJ because it's difficult to lay those feelings on the table... even if I wanted to. Which isn't often, all weaknesses need fixing. Right?

My $0.02. (I'm new, I lurk, but I was intrigued.)

Hi, vaeran, thanks for the input.  I have really only been able to observe one INTJ closely over time (my son), but what I have seen from him is pretty closely aligned with what you have written here, with one exception.  Every once in a while his emotions completely overwhelm him.  He can go from stoic to complete meltdown in a matter of moments.  He has had BIG outbursts of emotion that sometimes seemed to come out of nowhere and be completely disproportional to the circumstances, especially when he was younger.  Do any of you INTJs on this forum relate to this at all?   

 

Oh, absolutely, for me anyway. Especially when I was younger. I'm going to try to put it metaphorically.

It is like I am a pilot, flying above the earth's surface, just me and my plane. This is great, it is fun, it is often what I want and I love it, but sometimes this presents problems. Because I know that a lot of accidents and troubles appear likely if I fly below the clouds (I could get caught in a storm, or I could find myself in a country that might shoot me down, etc), I always try to fly above the clouds. This works out well, I love it above the clouds, the clouds are beautiful and so is the sky and the sun, etc. However, I can't fly this way all the time and I know this. I need to refuel and I need some companionship and I need a lot of things. However, because it has made it much easier to fly above the clouds, I don't really always know how the water flows on the ocean or whether I am above land or even more terrifyingly what goes on under the water's surface or how people interact. Plus, because I normally fly above the clouds, when I get hit by a storm, it is torrential. I then have to mature and take risks and learn that I can't just fly above the clouds and I have to learn how not to freak out when I hit a large storm, and I can't just *gasp* fly all the time.  Sometimes, I have to swim and take time away to learn how things really work "in the world" so I can learn how to better respond to the world.

Make sense?  I know not all INTJ experiences are like mine, but that's how best I can explain it.

I had episodes similar to your son in my pre-teen and early teen years.  I don't think at that time that I had really developed Se and as a result wasn't providing an adequate outlet for my emotions and negative feelings were allowed to build-up (my outlets are typically physical instead of verbal, so basically I wasn't "doing" enough about them).  It was like a volcano really.  Outwardly I would seem very calm and collected, and then in rare moments the most trivial thing would leave me suddenly overwhelmed and wanting to cry, scream, or both.  After these instances I would be very embarassed and would go into a brief period in which I was even more reserved and detached than usual.

Now emotions are much more of a well-integrated undercurrent in my thought-process.  My emotions are key in developing my sense of justice, and my sense of right and wrong.  Where they likely differ from those of the ENFP is that my sense of what is right or wrong isn't derived from how others involved are feeling necessarily, but more from how I feel separate of those around me and my own sense of logic.  Decisions based on this therefore don't always make those around me happy, but I'm largely ok with that.  What I have learned about this however is that I perhaps need to be gentler in informing others of my thoughts in those moments. What typically occurs is that for a very brief second that emotion shows through and I am likely to rather forcefully proclaim "That's not right!" or some variation thereof and then launch into a logical explanation of why, which is often received by others in retrospect as angry (and not passionate, as intended) and my message is lost to my audience.  I'm aware of my own emotions, but I need to be more aware of those in the people with whom I am communicating.

Posted By LittlexLady on 31 Mar 2011 07:17 AM

I had episodes similar to your son in my pre-teen and early teen years.  I don't think at that time that I had really developed Se and as a result wasn't providing an adequate outlet for my emotions and negative feelings were allowed to build-up (my outlets are typically physical instead of verbal, so basically I wasn't "doing" enough about them).  It was like a volcano really.  Outwardly I would seem very calm and collected, and then in rare moments the most trivial thing would leave me suddenly overwhelmed and wanting to cry, scream, or both.  After these instances I would be very embarassed and would go into a brief period in which I was even more reserved and detached than usual.

 

That sounds exactly like him!  It was mostly during his early teens, although he was still having occasional episodes in the last year or so.  Outwardly everything was normal, then someone would look at him the wrong way, and BAM!  POW! Volcanic eruption!  And afterwards he would be mortified.  But most of the time he was very even-keeled.

Posted By smooms on 29 Mar 2011 11:25 AM
As someone who is not you I can only tell you about what I have observed from many people I know who are somehow like you. But just as they are somehow like you they are somehow very not like you. You all have very distinct and unique processes and when you discuss them with each other you almost naturally defend them as if to defend your individuality which is in a way the ultimate expression of your processes O.o.

"I personally don't pay that much attention to my feelings otherwise I would walk around offended all the time."

I would say this certainly applies to every INTJ I have ever met. No matter how vastly different their personal ideas thoughts and regards to emotion are they seem to agree that they deal with emotions on a need basis and Themorrigan is quite brilliant in this is in a way how ENFPs deal with thoughts. But at the same time when we meet people like you we realize how much fun thoughts are and try our best to keep up. I think to the second point their may be an attractiveness to our semi lucid intuitive emotional state that we tend to project just by being ENFPs. The point again is we really have no idea how you think and feel, only you do and it is my opinion that we find something very unique when we can speak objectively about what we observe in others.

Keep it going I love hearing from you guys.

sMooMs

Damn not having a thank button here!

So The thoughts are a needs basis as in the way we process emotions....that's interesting. I think that a lot of INTJs are brilliant emotionally (some are retards). There is always work to be done on the self and taking notice of everything isn't always in the best interest in getting things done. I have seen some very articulate/brilliant ENFPs aaround and never even thought that it could be the same as the way that you have described thinking vs feeling. 

Posted By optimaler on 20 Apr 2011 04:20 PM
Hmmmmm, I smell a lecture on rational emotionality waiting to happen.

Funny.. the dots that I have connected in this comment.. Feeling is a rational thought process, because it is a process used to make decisions.. alright.. Me shut up now...

Posted By Zsych on 17 Apr 2011 07:18 PM
We have higher emotions. Emotions managed by our logic to no longer be the inferior things that control more ordinary people :p

Zsych? ....... Oh dear.. Someone get me a bucket!

But density increases with depth......

[Posted By LittlexLady on 31 Mar 2011 07:17 AM

I had episodes similar to your son in my pre-teen and early teen years.  I don't think at that time that I had really developed Se and as a result wasn't providing an adequate outlet for my emotions and negative feelings were allowed to build-up (my outlets are typically physical instead of verbal, so basically I wasn't "doing" enough about them).  It was like a volcano really.  Outwardly I would seem very calm and collected, and then in rare moments the most trivial thing would leave me suddenly overwhelmed and wanting to cry, scream, or both.  After these instances I would be very embarassed and would go into a brief period in which I was even more reserved and detached than usual.]

That sounds exactly like him!  It was mostly during his early teens, although he was still having occasional episodes in the last year or so.  Outwardly everything was normal, then someone would look at him the wrong way, and BAM!  POW! Volcanic eruption!  And afterwards he would be mortified.  But most of the time he was very even-keeled.

In response to Lauren's post, I completely relate to this, as well. It was more problematic when I was younger, perhaps resulting from my confusion at being overcome by emotions, but occasionally, say, once a year, it still happens. Typically, like most intjs, I'm cool and collected 99.9% of the time, but emotions that have no outlet will betray us eventually (Namely in the form of erupting at the most inopportune of times!)

In my experience, this never happens at the crux of stressful and/or crisis-like circumstances, as those are the times when we intjs tend to be at our optimum performance levels, ever-steady and resolute as we emerge from our inner-worlds to eliminate anything that poses a threat to the health and safety (physical or emotional) of our (usually select few) loved ones. 

Rather, it tends to arise from the most seemingly benign exchanges, leaving the intj perplexed and reeling. In my own experience, it's something like this:

1) Initial stressor ignites uncharacteristically visceral, emotional response, usually in the form of crying

2) I, embarrassed & confused by this, become angry (another emotion, as it were)

3) When I am at this stage, I am knocked completely off of my even keel, and become hyper-sensitive, intensifying this feeling of anger

4) I realize that my anger at such a silly thing is irrational, and become yet more angry w/myself, which shortly gives way to frustration

5) Frustration + intj in hypersensitive state = inconsolable heap of a pity-inducing human being, puffy-eyed and heaving for breath

It usually takes a few hours of quiet contemplation, comfort food, and possibly some reset button-pressing sex and/or a solid 9-10 hrs of sleep, but I usually emerge relatively unscathed, and often even feel reinvigorated w/a sense of understanding and purpose. In conclusion, I would not say that this should be a cause for concern, but simply a natural part of the intj growth process.

I apologize for my rambling writing style; I'm running on 4 hrs of sleep today...I hope this is helpful for you!