Posted By Kingoftheforum on 14 Oct 2011 12:08 AM

Posted By caprice on 17 Mar 2011 09:29 PM

I read a statement on another post which indicated that INTJs don't care about feelings. Yet my anecdotal interactions lead me to believe that at least some do.  I'm wondering what sorts of thoughts or considerations various INTJs have in regard to their own feelings or the feelings of others. 

 

I'm sick of these bullshit questions. Listen up, every single human being cares about feelings, they'd be fucked up if they didn't. F's care more about feelings when making decisions, HOWEVER us T's will put feelings into consideration, but we put logic before feelings. Like right now, I'm gonna say you asked a question which was unnecessary, you may hate me for saying that, but I'm logically telling you this so you don't ask another dumb question. I hope that makes sense Caprice.

Yes, but saying that everyone has feelings does not logically extend that because NTs have feelings that they care about all feelings.  For example, your response is harsh in tone and condescending because you are "sick of these bullshit questions" and "don't want" Caprice to ask another "dumb question."  Therefore, because you don't want to read a question like this again (your intellectual/emotional desire,) you disregard the feelings of the one asking the question (Caprice.) 
 

Therefore, you have chosen to not to include another's feelings into consideration and ultimately answered Caprice's "dumb question" because the question wasn't about whether NTs have feelings, but about what feelings they consider.  (Ie., in analysis, you have answered the question that it took 4 pages to concisely answer, so it wasn't necessarily all that "dumb" of a question for an NF to ask.) Your "logic" dicated not to care about Caprice's feelings, but another set of "logic" could lead you to the path that maybe it wasn't such a "dumb" question or that the end result of potentially upsetting Caprice wasn't worth not potentially reading the question again, so, in the end, the logic used is subjective based upon the personal desired end result.

Posted By PurpleGiraffe on 14 Oct 2011 06:26 AM

Posted By Kingoftheforum on 14 Oct 2011 12:08 AM

Posted By caprice on 17 Mar 2011 09:29 PM

I read a statement on another post which indicated that INTJs don't care about feelings. Yet my anecdotal interactions lead me to believe that at least some do.  I'm wondering what sorts of thoughts or considerations various INTJs have in regard to their own feelings or the feelings of others. 

 

I'm sick of these bullshit questions. Listen up, every single human being cares about feelings, they'd be fucked up if they didn't. F's care more about feelings when making decisions, HOWEVER us T's will put feelings into consideration, but we put logic before feelings. Like right now, I'm gonna say you asked a question which was unnecessary, you may hate me for saying that, but I'm logically telling you this so you don't ask another dumb question. I hope that makes sense Caprice.

Yes, but saying that everyone has feelings does not logically extend that because NTs have feelings that they care about all feelings.  For example, your response is harsh in tone and condescending because you are "sick of these bullshit questions" and "don't want" Caprice to ask another "dumb question."  Therefore, because you don't want to read a question like this again (your intellectual/emotional desire,) you disregard the feelings of the one asking the question (Caprice.) 
 

Therefore, you have chosen to not to include another's feelings into consideration and ultimately answered Caprice's "dumb question" because the question wasn't about whether NTs have feelings, but about what feelings they consider.  (Ie., in analysis, you have answered the question that it took 4 pages to concisely answer, so it wasn't necessarily all that "dumb" of a question for an NF to ask.) Your "logic" dicated not to care about Caprice's feelings, but another set of "logic" could lead you to the path that maybe it wasn't such a "dumb" question or that the end result of potentially upsetting Caprice wasn't worth not potentially reading the question again, so, in the end, the logic used is subjective based upon the personal desired end result.

That is understandable. But here is what I'm trying to say:

I don't take feelings into consideration AS MUCH as F's. F's take feelings into consideration more than logic, I was still concerned about how Caprice would respond, just not as much, so I was able to post my answer with no problem. Okay, I'm gonna throw a bizarre scenario out there, but consider this...

There is a man and he has a gun. He can either shoot himself in a foot or shoot his friend in the foot (an F.) If he doesn't do one of these two options, they both die. I'd say he'd more likely to shoot himself in the foot, because F's get more emotional. So he is logically thinking (because he doesn't want the F to start crying, as this would annoy him) and he is emotionally thinking (I don't want my friend to start crying.) So T's would be thinking logically first, however if it doesn't fit in with their morals they would be less likely to make the decision. It also depends on the T- strong thinkers are less feeling orientated, however only a 100 percent T wouldn't consider feelings, but there is no T like that- that would describe a psychopath.

ENTJ
Extraverted Thinking
"Unequivocating" expresses the resoluteness of the ENTJ's dominant function. Clarity of convictions endows these Thinkers with a knack for debate, or wanting knack, a penchant for argument. The light and heat generated by Thinking at the helm can be impressive; perhaps even overwhelming. Experience teaches many ENTJs that restraint may often be the better part of valor, lest one find oneself victorious but alone.

Introverted Feeling
Feeling is romantic, as the ethereal as the inner world from whence it doth emerge. When it be awake, feeling evokes great passion that knows not nuance of proportion nor context. Perhaps these lesser functions inspire glorious recreational quests in worlds that never were, or may only ever be in fantasy. When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic. Feeling in this type appears most authentic when implied or expressed covertly in a firm handshake, accepting demeanor, or act of sacrifice thinly covered by excuses of lack of any personal interest in the relinquished item.

ENFP
Introverted Feeling
Auxiliary feeling is nonverbally implied more often than it is openly expressed. When expressed, this logic has an aura of romance and purity that may seem out of place in this flawed, imperfect world. In its own defense, feeling judgement frequently and fleetly gives way to humor. ENFPs who publicize their feelings too often may put off some of the crowd of friends they naturally attract.

Extraverted Thinking
Thinking, the process which runs to impersonal conclusions, holds the extraverted tertiary position. Used on an occasional basis, ENFPs may benefit greatly from this ability. Less mature and lacking the polish of higher order functions, Thinking is not well suited to be used as a prominent function. As with other FP types, the ENFP unwary of Thinking's limitations may find themselves most positively mistaken.

Posted By alysaria on 15 Oct 2011 05:51 PM
I think you're over-simplifying the reasoning.... Most people in this scenario would shoot their own foot, if all things are equal, because of the *friend* part.

Let's hit the specific functions and I'ma show you F and T in ENTJs and ENFPs:

ENTJ
Extraverted Thinking
"Unequivocating" expresses the resoluteness of the ENTJ's dominant function. Clarity of convictions endows these Thinkers with a knack for debate, or wanting knack, a penchant for argument. The light and heat generated by Thinking at the helm can be impressive; perhaps even overwhelming. Experience teaches many ENTJs that restraint may often be the better part of valor, lest one find oneself victorious but alone.

Introverted Feeling
Feeling is romantic, as the ethereal as the inner world from whence it doth emerge. When it be awake, feeling evokes great passion that knows not nuance of proportion nor context. Perhaps these lesser functions inspire glorious recreational quests in worlds that never were, or may only ever be in fantasy. When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic. Feeling in this type appears most authentic when implied or expressed covertly in a firm handshake, accepting demeanor, or act of sacrifice thinly covered by excuses of lack of any personal interest in the relinquished item.

ENFP
Introverted Feeling
Auxiliary feeling is nonverbally implied more often than it is openly expressed. When expressed, this logic has an aura of romance and purity that may seem out of place in this flawed, imperfect world. In its own defense, feeling judgement frequently and fleetly gives way to humor. ENFPs who publicize their feelings too often may put off some of the crowd of friends they naturally attract.

Extraverted Thinking
Thinking, the process which runs to impersonal conclusions, holds the extraverted tertiary position. Used on an occasional basis, ENFPs may benefit greatly from this ability. Less mature and lacking the polish of higher order functions, Thinking is not well suited to be used as a prominent function. As with other FP types, the ENFP unwary of Thinking's limitations may find themselves most positively mistaken.

What I was saying was that T's shoot their foot because they don't want their friend to cry as it wouldn't be a pleasant experience, F's shoot their foot because they don't want to personally offend the other person. But all T's have some F in them.

Yes we could hit the specific functions, it may be a little complicated for the thread starter, however.

I can definitely relate to the ENTJ I dunno about you with the ENFP, but definitely relate!

Posted By alysaria on 15 Oct 2011 06:25 PM
O.o um....it's a matter of it being something so simple as "don't be offended" or "don't cry" as reasons to not shoot someone else in the foot.... If the scenario has 2 Ts the motivation doesn't suddenly change just because they aren't apt to burst into tears. And....I'd be a little worried if your first thought as a good reason to do so was 'God, I better shoot myself or he'll cry' given the scenario. lol

hahaha awwkkss.. that was my main reason

Maybe a better analogy is one that doesn't involve a dire situation....those results usually aren't what anyone expects of themselves anyway. I know go into ESTJ mode in emergencies and get what needs to be done taken care of ASAP and with very little fuss. As an example of a lesser emergency, I've cleaned up a friend's alcohol vomit because her husband was a wimp about it and she was too sick to deal with it....and while I'm not particularly endeared to barf, I neither complained nor wasted any time. I went full on ESTJ and took care of it promptly and efficiently.

An alternate scenario could be something as simple as taking the last slice of pizza to get the same point across.

....as a side note, I'm also a type 7 enneagram....which can sometimes make me inclined to try and find backdoor answers to things. Its great for looking at things in a unique way and changing perspective on a situation, but when little questions like "would you rather do x or y?" get asked, you'd think it was a trap the way I try to wriggle out of answering.
(my boyfriend has to amend out loopholes from hypothetical scenarios if it's supposed to be a black and white one or the other answer)

It's not that we don't care - more like it didn't occur to us beforehand. I am often completely caught out by the strength of peoples reactions, or the extent that I have trodden on toes. I genuinely had no idea, or I was genuinely distracted by the task at hand, and in all respect to said person with hurt feelings I make amends with them very quickly.

People will often take a strong response from me as a "telling off", when I don't mean to convey any message by it except that I just feel strongly about something.

I have had to learn to not be so impetuous, and to understand that I WILL hurt peoples feelings if I am rash.

My message to INTJs is just to take things slower, smell the roses, and enjoy life at a slower pace - theres no need to go scary fast all the time, and you won't get to see all the nice scenery, and the people around you won't duck every time you pick up something heavy and wave it above your head!

Steve

Posted By Moxie on 16 Jan 2012 12:27 PM
[....] an intj in love is one of the sweetest gifts on planet earth.

 cmon, cut it out.. 

 smarty pants!!!    I'll get my turn!! 

This is where as an empath you totally throw me off. Here's a trick when you're dealing with an INFJ, for future use. They're going to try to use their process to figure out what it is you're feeling. In that sense, you are invisible to us, because we require that feelings influence behaviors in order for us to built a personality model, a system, which allows us to make deductions about someones psychological makeup. You don't register on that radar we have at all. Less so than any other type. But, because of our human system building nature, we still try. We can't help but try. And since all we are presented with are blanks, we fill in the blanks with our OWN persona. This is where psychological projection comes in. This is not a type thing, this is  a human thing. We project parts of ourselves that we are not aware of conciously onto other people.

So, assuming the INFJ has never learned just how projection works, or how an INTJ opperates and wrapped his head around this novel concept, how little their emotions impact the behavior they show to the world, the INFJ will create an internalized personality model of the INTJ that is built nearly entirely based on his own projection.

Now, when you're listening to an INFJ tell you something about how you are, what you're feeling, what you're hiding, you can learn a lot about the INFJ, not so much about yourself.

It's not only because you hide your feelings, as in, don't let them influence the one thing that we mainly use to analyze people, the behavior they show, but also because you're the only type that is as insanly complex as we are, because you're also, primarily, system builders. We have a little emulator in our heads where we can operate a human model of a person, which enables us to do stuff like predict how someone is going to behave under any kinds of circumstances we can imagine very well, but doesn't really work as well as it should if the person we are dealing with is just as complex as we are. Too many variables.

Sorry to interject in this thread like this, just felt like sharing it. Carry on everyone

Posted By TheJan on 17 Jan 2012 02:03 PM
Do you mean INTJs or ENFPs? (I am sorry i did not read the whole thread) That one wasn't very clear to me in your post neocron.

Sorry about that. I kind of messed up the quote. I thought It had one, but, I was responding to Danny, last post on page 2, so, INTJ. Enfps, there is nothing at all hidden about enfps. You're wonderfully open to the world, a real joy to behold