Saturday, May 19, 2012   
  Search   
 
Register  Login  
Home  
Birkenhead drill
Last Post 09 Feb 2012 11:33 AM by Stripes. 18 Replies.
'; AddThis - Bookmarking and Sharing Button Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
23 Jan 2012 11:55 AM  

To take your chance in the thick of a rush, with firing all about,
Is nothing so bad when you've cover to 'and, an' leave an' likin’ to shout;
But to stand an’ be still to the Birken’ead drill is a damn tough bullet to chew,
An’ they done it, the Jollies - 'Er Majesty’s Jollies - soldier an' sailor too!
Their work was done when it 'adn’t begun; they was younger nor me an' you;
Their choice it was plain between drownin' in 'eaps an' bein' mopped by the screw,
So they stood an' was still to the Birken'ead drill, soldier an' sailor too!

Extract from Soldier an Sailor too by Rudyard Kipling

With the sinking of the Costa Concordia do you think the Birkenhead drill (women and children first) still stands true today?

 

When all else fails, improvise!
Nick User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: M/34
Relationship:
IM:
Editor
Editor
Posts:350
Avatar

--
23 Jan 2012 05:30 PM  
So what with women wanting equal rights... does that means they should give up their preferential treatment when it comes to first dibs on life boats?

How about gallantry and chivalry? You first my dear
PurpleGiraffe User is Offline
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
Relationship: Jirafa sola
IM:
Philosopher of ENFPs
Philosopher of ENFPs
Posts:962
Avatar

--
23 Jan 2012 05:57 PM  
The Birkenhead drill has had problems since its beginning. For example, after the sinking of the Titanic women and children returned home with usually their mother, but their father, who was in most instances the primary income generator was often not alive, so these mothers and children had something new to contend with: paying for and having access to necessities that they had previously. So in that case, even chilvalry has major consequences.

I personally think that at this point it should be first-come-first serve as long as individuals with children are insured a spot first, but the boarding policy isn't nearly as important now because since the sinking of the Titanic, ships in most countries have been required to have enough lifeboats to accommodate all passengers.
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

23 Jan 2012 05:59 PM  
The subtitle of The Myth of Male Power is "Why Men are the Disposable Sex." This is a key tenet of Farrell’s philosophy. Historically, he says, both sexes were disposable in the service of survival: women risked death in childbirth; men risked death in war. However, Farrell notes, there is a key difference: women's disposability emanated more from biology; men's required socialization.[6]
Farrell asks, "how does a society get its sons to compete to die?" Farrell's thesis about socialization for male disposability is that virtually every society that survived did so by training a cadre of its sons to be disposable—for example, in war and in work (coal miners; firefighters). Successful socialization required rewarding boys with social "bribes of approval." These bribes included being labeled "hero," giving them promotions and "Purple Hearts" for risking their lives, and the love of women. This love leads to children, who are then socialized by parents who reinforce the cycle.[7]
The Myth of Male Power proposes that, because death is not particularly healthy, this cycle creates a "paradox of masculinity": what it has taken to create a society that is healthy creates boys and men who are unhealthy.[8]
Perhaps Farrell's most controversial contribution to gender politics is The Myth of Male Power's confrontation of the belief that patriarchal societies make rules to benefit men at the expense of women. Farrell cites hundreds of examples to the contrary, such as male-only draft registration not benefiting men at the expense of women; or men constituting 93% of workplace deaths; or being expected to risk sexual rejection, pay on dates, and buy women diamonds. Once married, rules made by men are more likely to lead to men losing children and their home after divorce--what he cites as another example of male disposability. Farrell contends that nothing is more telling about who has benefited from "men's rules" than life expectancy and suicide rates--and men lose in both of these categories.[9]


>.> Biologically speaking, men are more disposable....since if we're talking purely genetically, 1 man can father many children with multiple women. Male animals fight for dominance so that one strong alpha will impregnate many females to create more powerful offspring. Humans may not charge each other on the street and battle for supremacy to get a mate, but some of those drives are still there. That point was kind of overlooked in the entry I have quoted.
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
24 Jan 2012 12:09 PM  

@Nick: Seems you and me are on the same boat Onion Head Emoticons 136.Just to bad that it's the sinking oneOnion Head Emoticons 121

@PG: Ahh thanks PG but I will gladly give my spot on the life boat for you even if I was there before you.

@Alysaria: Well women already out number menOnion Head Emoticons 107 so the loss of a few hundred or thousand won't make such a big difference to the big picture I think. 

Just to ad something that I think might also play a part. When the HMS Birkenhead sank the men on board were sailors and soldiers who got the order to let the women and children go so that the lifeboats wouldn't be swamped. So they might just have been following orders. This wasn't meant for civilian men. And seeing as today chivalry is all but dead I just wondered if it still has relevance today?

When all else fails, improvise!
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

25 Jan 2012 12:31 AM  

  China tried that, and look what happened. 

 
In most of the world, the larger number of women is in the 60s and up (because women tend to live longer than men). But for the most part, there's not much of a variation between the two. 
 
Honestly....not having a system at all for evacuation is worse than a sexist system. There are far more deaths (especially of children) when people panic. >.> And let's face it....if it were every man for himself, women fight dirtier than men do. 
 
Nick User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: M/34
Relationship:
IM:
Editor
Editor
Posts:350
Avatar

--
25 Jan 2012 02:21 AM  
Ah... if I'm thinking foremost about my family, can I just make sure that we're all in a life boat, and not be as worried about everyone else :&41; only if it were that just one of my familly didn't have a spot then I should I give mine up?

Or thinking about it some more, there's this good quote: "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
25 Jan 2012 11:26 AM  

@Alysaria: Well the Russians have more girls being born than boys (thanks to all the VodkaOnion Head Emoticons 32)and I know in 3rd world countries women out number men. And I am not talking about over 60s.Because in these countries the lifespan isn't all that high. 

But you thinking we men are expendableOnion Head Emoticons 26. I knew you had no heartOnion Head Emoticons 52.  

 

When all else fails, improvise!
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

26 Jan 2012 11:27 PM  
In 3rd world countries....there are other factors.... Men are more likely to become involved in conflicts/wars or work dangerous jobs. But it's not fair to say all of the third world countries have a higher ratio of women to men...

Where Did All The Russian Men Go?
Historic events have contributed to the dwindling male population in Russia and Ukraine, beginning with the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution, then the civil war and devastating famines of 1932 and 1933. Russia lost over 20 million soldiers in World War II. Today, the population decline boils down to Russians dying young and having fewer children. The average life expectancy of Russian men is barely 60, which is one of the lowest of the developed countries.


Women outnumber men substantially in Europe, the US, and Japan, where, despite the persistence of various types of bias against women (men having distinct advantages in higher education, job specialization, and promotion to senior executive positions, for example), women suffer little discrimination in basic nutrition and health care. The greater number of women in these countries is partly the result of social and environmental differences that increase mortality among men, such as a higher likelihood that men will die from violence, for example, and from diseases related to smoking. But even after these are taken into account, the longer lifetimes enjoyed by women given similar care appear to relate to the biological advantages that women have over men in resisting disease. Whether the higher frequency of male births over female births has evolutionary links to this potentially greater survival rate among women is a question of some interest in itself. Women seem to have lower death rates than men at most ages whenever they get roughly similar treatment in matters of life and death.

The fate of women is quite different in most of Asia and North Africa. In these places the failure to give women medical care similar to what men get and to provide them with comparable food and social services results in fewer women surviving than would be the case if they had equal care. In India, for example, except in the period immediately following birth, the death rate is higher for women than for men fairly consistently in all age groups until the late thirties. This relates to higher rates of disease from which women suffer, and ultimately to the relative neglect of females, especially in health care and medical attention.2 Similar neglect of women vis-à-vis men can be seen also in many other parts of the world. The result is a lower proportion of women than would be the case if they had equal care—in most of Asia and North Africa, and to a lesser extent Latin America.

This pattern is not uniform in all parts of the third world, however. Sub-Saharan Africa, for example, ravaged as it is by extreme poverty, hunger, and famine, has a substantial excess rather than deficit of women, the ratio of women to men being around 1.02. The “third world” in this matter is not a useful category, because it is so diverse. Even within Asia, which has the lowest proportion of women in the world, Southeast Asia and East Asia (apart from China) have a ratio of women to men that is slightly higher than one to one (around 1.01). Indeed, sharp diversities also exist within particular regions—sometimes even within a particular country. For example, the ratio of women to men in the Indian states of Punjab and Haryana, which happen to be among the country’s richest, is a remarkably low 0.86, while the state of Kerala in southwestern India has a ratio higher than 1.03, similar to that in Europe, North America, and Japan.
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
27 Jan 2012 12:05 PM  

Well I live in a 3rd world country( as well as lived in a number of others) surroundeed by other 3rd world countries on a continent made up out of 3rd world countries. So I think I understand what is fair to say about the factors and the ratios involved ( seeing as I actually have first hand knowledge of most of those nasty things you metioned )
And the Russian reply wasn't based on historical events but based on the fact that due to the amount of vodka consumed by russian men it has a negative effect on the Y chromosomes sperm sells due to the fact that they are more sensative to the chemicals in the body than the X chromosome. So more girls are being born.

You do realise that this thread is about sinking ships and not popluation control?

When all else fails, improvise!
PurpleGiraffe User is Offline
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
Relationship: Jirafa sola
IM:
Philosopher of ENFPs
Philosopher of ENFPs
Posts:962
Avatar

--
27 Jan 2012 02:56 PM  
@PG: Ahh thanks PG but I will gladly give my spot on the life boat for you even if I was there before you.


Thanks, Stripes! I might fight you over giving it back, but I'm not always needing to win a fight, so I'd probably relent and take it or force you into the lifeboat too. Somebody else can swim. Mwahaha!
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

27 Jan 2012 11:02 PM  
XD I wasn't saying it was about population control, but you brought up the male/female ratios and it distracted me. Mainly I'm just being a pest.

What I think is that whatever the system is, there needs to be one to keep people from panicking. Personally I'd still be inclined to make sure children go to safety first, preferably together with their families.
caprice User is Offline
MBTI: eNfP
Age/Sex: F
Relationship:
IM:
High Author
High Author
Posts:782
Avatar

--
28 Jan 2012 12:45 AM  
All I know is that if I'm on a ship I'm going to make damn sure that I know where all of the life boats are and think about where the least amount of traffic would be in the case of an emergency and if there's the slightest hint of trouble I'm there with the people I love first in line. I would give up my spot for some select people, but I figure the act of considering in advance is survival of the fittest in a sense. Honestly I'd be haunted by such a scene or choice.

Anyways, I'm now intensely curious as to where Stripes lives. I know you won't say straight out, but maybe a riddle??
Load User is Offline
MBTI: INFJ
Age/Sex: 1976 Male
Relationship: Single
IM:
Posts:50
Avatar

--
28 Jan 2012 11:16 AM  
haha PurpleGiraffe you are so funny! it works out!
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

04 Feb 2012 11:40 PM  
Load User is Offline
MBTI: INFJ
Age/Sex: 1976 Male
Relationship: Single
IM:
Posts:50
Avatar

--
07 Feb 2012 12:52 PM  
this is also funny too haha yo yo yo!
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
08 Feb 2012 11:25 AM  

Alysaria.Onion Head Emoticons 39 I think that is more a 

When all else fails, improvise!
alysaria User is Offline
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex:
Relationship:
IM:
Empress of Random

Founding Member
Administrator
Administrator
Posts:2933
Avatar

--

08 Feb 2012 11:51 PM  
A recent study theorized that your sense of etiquette might vary with the speed of the ship's sinking.[4] Frey, Savage, and Torkler's study[5] found that more women and children survived the sinking of the Titanic than on the Lusitania, where more young men and women survived. The Lusitania sank in 18 minutes, whereas the Titanic sank in 2 hours, 40 minutes, and the study concluded that selfish behavior dominates when people are under pressure to survive, whereas social norms and status hold when the pressure is less evident, causing those who behave like gentlemen to end up losing their lives. In addition, the chivalrous behavior of British men has been posited as a reason for why more of them lost their lives on the Titanic than American men, who were thought to display more individualistic behavior.[6] Make of that what you will!
Stripes User is Offline
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
Relationship:
IM:
Senior Editor
Senior Editor
Posts:404
Avatar

--
09 Feb 2012 11:33 AM  

That is very interesing Alysaria. So it would seem that not all men are actulally "made equal", it might be more based on the society one grows up in and its values even if it does seem on the surface to be similar to others.Onion Head Emoticons 146

When all else fails, improvise!
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Find: ENFP Relationships, ENFP career advice and MBTI Chat. ENFP and INTJ, ENFP and INFJ, ENFP and INFP, ENFP and ESTP, ENFP and ESFP, ENFP and ISFP, ENFP and ISTP, ENFP and ISTJ Informaiton. enfp personality briggs careers meyers intj type infp relationships compatibility infj profile enfps career famous jobs love test entp intp forum match.

Downloaded from DNNSkins.com