My brother & I were having a conversation about the "24 types of INTP" (found on the intp messageboard/forum) & wondered how it manifested in ENFP's & other types. It's an interesting concept/theory that got me thinking ...

Variety within a single type (and enneagram, SLOAN, Big Five, DiSC assessment, etc) can make persons of the same MBTI very diverse in both motivation & in strengths/weaknesses.

In which order are you strongest to weakest?

For me...I go by the order of NFPE. I wonder how that would translate in terms of the sub-type. Hmmm..

What about you?

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P-type

"The improviser"

PNTI-"the qc"
This type uses a wild intellectual instinct to perfect systems, whether they were the originator or not. The weak TI creates ambivalence towards identity and logic.

PNIT-"the context jumper"
The other PN, tends towards comparing seemingly incompatible systems. They thrive on ideas like quines and seemingly inappropriate metaphors.

PINT-"the secret prostitute"
The first of our identity-strong subtypes, they court several identities at once without thought of global inconsistency.

PITN-"the reed in the wind"
Skilled in the evasive arts, these are one of the physical subtypes. Their sense of physical evasion echoes in the chameleon nature of their soul.

PTNI-"the cold shower"
With the inherent paradox of being a T-strong perciever, this type excels in using parsimony to reduce systems to a simplest metaphor. This activity can be sobering.

PTIN-"the collector"
The second in the physical/material subtype, the PTIN collects ideas into a centerless framework.

N-type

"The speculator"

NPIT-"the niche maker"
This type tends to create systems starting from a specific example, creating the framework to fit the criteria of the intuition-object. They want to find a place for everything, and a frame big enough for everyone.

NPTI-"the mediator"
With a kind, agreeable nature, this subtype wants to classify and sort much like the NPIT, but tries to do this from within whichever system is dominant.

NIPT-"the virus"
This identity subtype tries to infect others with a prevailing thought in order to create self-replicating satelites. The best memes are created by the NIPT.

NITP-"the loyalist"
The first of our value-heavy subtypes, the NITP creates an identity through adherence to usually one thought-style or system-style (which may evolve slowly over the years), finding the similarity of all things within this frame.

NTIP-"the armchair general"
One of two pure rationals-this type likes to win. It will usually win long before playing the game, having created and perfected the gaming system.

NTPI-"the arcologist"
The second of the pure rationals, the NTPI tends towards creating utopian architectures. It does this out of a strong intuition of global truth.

I-type

"The solipsists"

INTP-"the unabomber"
With the strong sense of values and identity, this type leads to a greater truth by quiet example.

INPT-"bodhidharma"
This type, the second of the hermit-like INs, seeks obliteration of the personality through calm meditation.

IPNT-"the deadhead"
These types tend to be long-simmering hippies, who are secretly yearning for a simpler existence, usually involving nature or anachronism.

IPTN-"the stoner"
Stoned or not, this type uses themselves as the basic element in their fantasy world. Consequently, they tend to make very self-indulgent frameworks to inhabit.

ITNP-"slow burn"
These annihilate their personalities with their razor brains, and can get into J/P spirals that can lead to madness and suicide.

ITPN-"the cutter"
This type has all the identity strife of the ITNP, but tends to externalize it as physical activity of some kind. The two ITs tend to be the most objective of all the subtypes, because they are constantly forced to face their faults.

T-type

"The editor"

TNIP-"the global paradox"
This is the first of the two flipped rationals. From a long tradition of having their N destroy the workings of their T, the TNIP has found a way to boil anything down to a single metaphorical paradox.

TNPI-"the saboteur"
The other of the flipped rationals, the TNPI has found a favored heuristic with which to destroy any system. This type prefers to destroy in service of a stronger whole, which it ironically knows will never be perfect or complete.

TIPN-"the ourobouros"
This artistic subtype is always destroying itself, finding an identity in the process of constant self-creation. This is the mellower version of the ITs.

TINP-"the silver bullet"
This subtype is always searching for the achilles' heel of a system, with the goal of being recognized as the person who brought it down.

TPIN-"the stress test"
This type is the pure analyst who succeeds in dispassionately running simulations in their mind. These are the best visualizers out of all the 384 subtypes.

TPNI-"the actuary"
This type is the most ambivalent of identity as well as the most logical of the subtypes. The pure debater.

 On the type indicator test I took I was 

Intuitive - 89%

Extravert - 63%

Feeling - 63%

Perceiving - 63%

Introversion (90%)

iNtuitive      (72%)

Thinking      (60%)

Judging       (60%)

This is based on what i remember, im absolutely sure about the I though, i have a high I.

Type indicator put me at E 11, N 50, T 1, J 44 which would make me a TEJN, interesting!

I scored ENTJ and ESTJ on two additional tests:

Extraverted (E) 71%    
Sensing (S) 68%   
Thinking (T) 90%    
Judging (J) 64%

Extroverted (E) 57.58%
Intuitive (N) 51.28%
Thinking (T) 63.64%
Judging (J) 58.82%

I'm definitely not a cornball ESTJ, though ENTJ might be possible... time to upgrade my profile? Maybe I've been ENTJ all along, and am like a beautiful insect emerging from the crust of an INTJ chysalis phase.

Well my best friend is an ENTJ, and ENTJ's have a different kind of E then most people. ENTJ's dont really enjoy other people's company (Atleast he doesnt) And he doesnt really feel at ease in a crowd, but he really thrives whenever he shares his idea's or is among likeminded people (me for example). Also he is much more upfront and direct with people, whereas i'm only direct if people ask me for it.

If you want to know if you're either ENTJ or INTJ you just need to ask yourself, Do i need to express my idea's or am i fine if they dwell inside my own head.

Hmm. The company of others is great, provided we're talking about subjects more interesting than the weather. I created my own philosophy group last summer, and so far it has exceeded all of my expectations-- it has attracted a solid core of bright and interesting peeps. Common banter in contrast doesn't drain my energy so much as make me antsy-- "I'd rather be doing that, and a, b, c need to get done, I wonder what's happening with this, I wanted to finish book x and y this week..."

Crowds I'm indifferent to, though I really, really hate loud noise when it gets around the 120 db level. I like to hear what I and other people are saying. Ringing ears, no thanks.

I dunno, examining ideas is nice, though doing so with others is icing on the cake.

Perhaps environment plays a role too. Temperamentally I'm more of a generalist than a specialist-- what Isaiah Berlin would call a fox, as opposed to a hedgehog. My mind is centrifugal, not centripetal. I don't know if that has anything to do with type or not. Though because I have a lot of different interests, I have yet to gain a secure economic footing that would allow more entj behaviors-- for example, if I had my own house, I wouldn't mind throwing parties for my friends, but that's still in the future. But on the other hand, I get the impression most entjs were born with their shit together, ready to roll.

Can you think of any other intj-entj differences?

Throwing parties for friends is deffinatly ENTJ. Hmm lets see more ENTJ-INTJ differences

Well first of, Me, INTJ, i generaly imagine ideas through pure... imagination? whereas my ENTJ friend creates ideas by valuating things based on facts and looks what needs to be done and/or fixed. I do this too but i rely more on my N.

My friend is not at all open to hearing new ideas or different aproaches to things he knows about, for example, if there is a game he doesnt like he will never ever play it. and he judges a game in like 2 seconds, if he dies in 2 seconds he shelves the game away and forgets about it. Also during debate this comes back, he just presumes he is right and that the facts his opinion is based on weigh heftier then the facts i base a conclussion on. And well 2 people who always seem to be right it result in me saying: I dont care what you think... and i become quiet afterwards as i just stop caring. And he has more trouble letting things go.

Another difference is temper, he has quite the high temper and can explode and i mean, EXPLODE KAPOW ANGRY DEATH TO ALL GODD*MN !^&!@!&P@!_@&*!. Sometimes i make fun of it and he gets even angrier and then i ussualy record it and play it again, making him even angrier hahah. I almost never get mad and if i do i dont explode i just become destructive, i say things wich hurt you the most or i will just punch you if you really get on my nerves.

This is all based on me and my ENTJ friend,i know him for 6 years now, but there arent really alot of differences. if you meet us we are polar opposites, but we are also the same its very odd.

My friend had some trouble that he got labled as Extrovert as he asocieated Extrovert with the loud obnoxious people we ussualy run into(esfp estj etc) , i told him otherwise and he finds himself more in the E then before.

I wish i could help you more but i cant express myself well in words. hope it helps a bit though.

Thanks for the feedback, Tabow!

Concerning facts and imagination, my thought aims at what is true. I love conceptual analysis, and I believe it is important to justify contingent propositions inductively/empirically when possible. Theories are fun, though without experiential backing, they're unjustified. Not false necessarily, but unable to rise to the level of knowledge, or even probable belief. I've chatted with some people who believe in narratives and discourses and transcendental realms and so forth, and much of it I suspect should quite properly be regarded as a word salad. I wonder what on Earth do such people mean-- are we speaking words with referents? And also, we can always request to prove it and rise above the level of speculation. This is why I show up as an 'S' type sometimes even though I do read a lot of fiction. There's an empirical difference between fiction and non-fiction, and these mbti tests assume if someone is intuitive, they're not concrete, or they live in a fantasy world. This is unfortunate, given intuition is definitely required to create a hypothesis, or to form a meta-theory, or to outline a strategy. Intuition alone just can't put the ball in the end-zone of truth.

I'm definitely open to new things, experiences, and ideas. With respect to games-- board games, occasionally video games-- I like to have a certain mix of uncertainty/chance mixed with an element of strategy. Merit mixed with surprises. If something is boring or repetitive, or takes eons to develop or level up trivial skills, why put time into it? But I do like the interaction; here I'm more Riker than Picard.

About argument, my policy is that we can learn from anybody, and mistakes are just as important as successes. We don't need to hold ideas in a half-assed manner though. There will always be people who believe whatever they want casually without self-examination; there is no reason to stress such individuals out-- that many ENTJs are reported to be bossy or controlling is evidence for the JHB=INTJ hypothesis. However, ignorant people who are cocky about it deserve contempt, though I rarely encounter this, because people who fit this category tend to be cowards-- they don't know what they know and what they don't know-- a global horizon of knowledge is missing. Thought going off the train tracks of logic has always fascinated me-- 911 truthers, holocaust deniers, creationists, lunar hoaxers-- thinking is a lot like plumbing, for we don't suspect something is wrong until we see leaks and water all over the place.

Your friend's anger sounds more like impatience; I'm definitely a patient person. I've been working on wrath though-- Dante once described it as "love of justice perverted to revenge and spite." In my early 20s I used to get road rage really bad, and I've always been a sore loser since a young age. Recent events though have taught me to take things in stride when I don't get my way.

I dunno. Do I sound like an INTJ, or an ENTJ?

Ok, I took another test at mypersonalityinfo.com, got 68% E, 58% N, 74% T, and 68% J. Time to upgrayyed my profile...

All of the type descriptions though make ENTJs sound like workaholic bullies. I don't want to be a workaholic bully! Who writes this baloney?

Yes yes, if you test E multiple times you can assure that you are ENTJ, and because you once got ESTJ doesnt matter, i tested INTJ on every test i did but on the Keirsey website i got tested ESFJ... Riiiight...

The thing about anger and openmindness is, we are both pretty young, i'm 18 and he turned 19 two days ago. So his impatientness and thick head probably have to do with maturity.

Also, why the hell do INTJ's and ENTJ's have such a bad name on those discriptions? its like they want to make us anoyning pricks. ENTJ's are great people even though i only know 1 dont let the haters fool you ^^

Posted By JHBowden on 10 Dec 2009 12:53 PM

I scored ENTJ and ESTJ on two additional tests:

Extraverted (E) 71%    
Sensing (S) 68%   
Thinking (T) 90%    
Judging (J) 64%

Extroverted (E) 57.58%
Intuitive (N) 51.28%
Thinking (T) 63.64%
Judging (J) 58.82%

I'm definitely not a cornball ESTJ, though ENTJ might be possible... time to upgrade my profile? Maybe I've been ENTJ all along, and am like a beautiful insect emerging from the crust of an INTJ chysalis phase.

OMG JH! When you sprout green wings, it's going to be beautiful!!! 

Posted By Tabow on 11 Dec 2009 05:42 AM

Yes yes, if you test E multiple times you can assure that you are ENTJ, and because you once got ESTJ doesnt matter, i tested INTJ on every test i did but on the Keirsey website i got tested ESFJ... Riiiight...

 

Awesome! Tabow's a Feeler! yipppeee  

Yea you wish i was a feeler type. A couple a days ago i taught i was an F type though, since i had mixed feelings about certain stuff and i was like: omg i have feelings and i must therefore be INFJ . Well i figured shortly thereafter that i didnt even knew what kind of feelings i had and ditched them in a few seconds anyway