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Haiti Earthquake Relief
Last Post 28 Jan 2010 11:41 PM by JHBowden. 5 Replies.
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electriclady  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Level 2 Relationship: IM: Posts:80

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| 15 Jan 2010 09:30 PM |
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The earthquake in Haiti has left the country in absolute shambles . A catastrophe of major proportions. I just donated money to yele. Anybody else sent a donation to the relief funds? |
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Psyko  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: Thirtysomething - Female Relationship: Just got married to her amazing ENFP IM: ENFP Muse & Addicted
 Moderator: NTs Posts:653


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| 16 Jan 2010 05:22 PM |
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Yes I did! I wish I could do more, the situation is horrible. |
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cryptonia  MBTI: INTP Age/Sex: 21 Relationship: IM: INTP Founding Member
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| 23 Jan 2010 12:10 AM |
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One of my friends from Mexico showed me this article..... it made me  . http://www.counterpunch.org/toussaint01192010.html In particular, At best, Haiti is described as a violent, poor and repressive country. There are few comments remembering the independence gained in 1804, after a hard-fought struggle against Napoleon’s French armies. Rather than focusing on their humane approach and their fight for Human Rights, savagery and violence are the traits attributed to Haitians. Eduardo Galeano talks about “the white curse.” “At the border where the Dominican Republic ends and Haiti begins, there is a large sign with the following warning: The bad path. On the other side, it is black hell. Blood and hunger, poverty, plagues.” It is therefore necessary to look back at the struggle for emancipation waged by the Haitian population, because in retaliation against this double-faceted revolution, both anti-slavery and anti-colonial in nature, the country inherited the ransom France demanded for independence, amounting to 150 million francs (that is, France’s annual budget at the time). In 1825, France decided that “The current inhabitants of the French part of Santo Domingo will pay into France’s Federal deposit and consignment offices, the sum of one hundred and fifty million francs, to be paid in five instalments, year after year, with the first term due 31 December 1825. The money will be used to compensate the former colonists who will demand compensation.” That is equivalent to approximately 21 billion dollars nowadays. From the outset Haiti had to pay a very high price. Debt became the neo-colonial instrument used to maintain access to this country’s many natural resources. The payment of this ransom is therefore the founding element of the Haitian State. In legal terms, this means that it was contracted by a despotic regime and this contract was used against the interests of the people. First France, then the United States, whose sphere of influence expanded to Haiti from 1915, are entirely responsible for this. Now, whilst it would have been possible to face up to their painful responsibilities of the past in 2004, the Debray Commission report preferred to scrap the idea of repaying this sum on the pretext that it was “legally unfounded” and that this action would open a “Pandora’s box.” The Haitian government’s request was rejected by France: no compensation was warranted. .... Rather than giving donations, it would be preferable that they cancel Haiti’s debt: totally, unconditionally and immediately. Can we really speak of donations when we know that this most of this money will either be used to repay foreign debt or to implement “national development projects” decided on the basis of the interests of these creditors or local elites? Not to pick on you guys, or anything (I realize what this post sounds like, in this thread, since the article by nature devalues donating money... but I didn't want to make a new one, when this was already on-topic, and reading this, and a few other articles, really depressed me). Is Haiti really so poor because it was born of a slave-revolt, and the slaves were forced to pay compensation to their owners? Does anyone know the other side to the story, if there is one? |
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| Pain shared is pain divided. Joy shared is joy doubled. |
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JHBowden  MBTI: ENTJ Age/Sex: 31 Relationship: IM: Dark Lord of the Sith
 Assistant Editor Posts:349

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| 23 Jan 2010 10:26 PM |
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Is Haiti really so poor because it was born of a slave-revolt, and the slaves were forced to pay compensation to their owners? That's a huge historical stretch, but a necessary one, if one embraces a Leninist theory of imperialism. We might as well try to deduce Poland's economic fate in 2010 onward from the partition of 1795.
Noam Chomsky, after dissolution of the Soviet Union, predicted that Eastern Europe, without communist beneficence, would be ravaged and plundered by the Western imperialists via their evil corporations. But they've had good growth since economic liberalization. If the types who write articles for Counterpunch can't make predictions from 1991, why should we believe that their efforts to deduce the future from the events of 1825 have any weight? This stuff is just predictable, hate the West agitprop. |
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cryptonia  MBTI: INTP Age/Sex: 21 Relationship: IM: INTP Founding Member
 Administrator Posts:692

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| 28 Jan 2010 09:57 PM |
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well, 's fair enough I suppose. We definitely process things a lot differently, though. When you see things that are "like" the "other side" from you politically (that is, the same sorts of criticisms), I think you're really quick to write them off. I try to take them extra-seriously, since there's obviously going to be bias in my head thinking "we did our best to be good people in all our decisions." But, you do also have a hell of a lot more political experience than I do, so you're going to be better at picking through tripe. I did a bit more googling, and found articles pointing out that $1.2 billion of Haiti's debt was actually cancelled around July of last year, and the $640 million that they owe now is what's leftover. I wonder if there are numbers anywhere on how much of that $21 billion they started with (assuming that was an accurate number, accounting for inflation and all) was paid back by them over the years, and how much of it was cancelled in chunks. Even if it turns out that they never paid most of that debt, though, it is a little frustrating to think that donations will, in part, just be used to pay back loans to other governments. |
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| Pain shared is pain divided. Joy shared is joy doubled. |
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JHBowden  MBTI: ENTJ Age/Sex: 31 Relationship: IM: Dark Lord of the Sith
 Assistant Editor Posts:349

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| 28 Jan 2010 11:41 PM |
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Frankly, I'm worried about who is going to pay *our* massive debt!
Good detective work btw. |
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