I've read through the threads and didn't want to hijack them with my lack of belief--I respect your religion, whatever it may be. But there's this question that keeps popping up for me.

Why do you need a God?

I was raised without a belief system. Please don't express pity for me--I don't think I'm missing out on anything because of that. But I suppose that's given me a rather different viewpoint in relation to spiritual things. And I don't think I'm missing out on something.

I believe I have a purpose. I don't need a God to tell me what that purpose is--I believe that as a human, as a conscious person, I find my purpose. I don't need a holy text to tell me what is wrong or right--I find my own personal truths. I want to help people not because I love God or because he tells me to do so--but because I honestly think that is the best thing to do. Because I derive pleasure from it. Because I think that love is something that we all deserve, because I sincerely feel love for people. I think we all need to help each other, because we're the only ones who can. Not pray to a higher power to fix things, as some Christians appear to do. [I don't know; I don't want to generalize here.]

And so, I'm curious. What do you think believing in a God does that can't be experienced otherwise? Why do you? How has it enriched your life?

I simply think people need a God when they are raised to think that they do.


Merry Cristmas, fellow atheist! (And yeah, for me it's just Winter Solstice)

Haha, happy holidays to you, too! I'm glad I'm not alone--a lot of people react badly when I tell them.

I was raised to believe in someone called God, and i totally disagree. My beliefs have nothing to do with what was expressed
in and around my home. My spirituality is something very personal, it has nothing to do with my surroundings as a child or an
adult for that matter. Its a personal choice. People can grow up in a environment with no God, nothing to believe in , and still
become very religious. Personal choice within each of us, what is true and of purpose for ourselves.

My idea of god is... complex.
I don't believe in an Entity-like god (a single being that is all-powerfull and stuff) - i more or less believe that the universe itself is... "God". I mean, everything is connected, everyone does their own thing, but it still contributes to a bigger whole. Not only people, all matter is connected. All matter interacts. All matter and all energy (matter is just a form of energy, so everyone, everything... is made of the same energy... we are "Energy-Beings" if you think about it) follows the principle of actio and reactio - the action does not only influence the object, but the subject also. So whatever you do... you will always face the consequences of what you do - sooner or later. It is strange how many things keep coming back to you... You'd rather have something good coming back to you then something bad, really

Btw i went to a catholic school, but they were pretty liberal and our religion teacher said that she didn't agree with some things the church said or how the bible was to be read (the canonical view)
But i didn't really develop my view of "God" until a 2-3 years back... before i didn't care really...

One of the main reasons I need God is that I hate life. If I wasn't convinced that there was something bigger than what I could see and understand I would immediately commit suicide. There is nothing in this world that is worth staying alive for. Of course, my friends and family are important to me, but they have all let me down...or will eventually. Humanity is cruel and illogical and unloving and perverse and we've been around for awhile without improving very much. I'd love to think that if we all just keep working we can make this world a better place. And I do believe that people can make the world a better place. I strive to do this with my life, but on a large scale, the world is just as bad now as it ever has been. There is still pain, disappointment, torture, war, natural disasters, etc. Life is no pick-nick. (not to say that it doesn't carry some joy as well.) I have to believe that there is a reason to continue to live. I have to believe that suffering is not in vain and that one day there will be redemption. I have to believe that perfect Love exists.

On a day to day basis, yes, I tend to rely on myself. I tend to view God as involved and interested in humanity, but also as not wanting to interfere. I think He wants to watch us make our own decisions.

I believe I have a purpose. I don't need a God to tell me what that purpose is--I believe that as a human, as a conscious person, I find my purpose. I don't need a holy text to tell me what is wrong or right--I find my own personal truths. I want to help people not because I love God or because he tells me to do so--but because I honestly think that is the best thing to do. Because I derive pleasure from it. Because I think that love is something that we all deserve, because I sincerely feel love for people. I think we all need to help each other, because we're the only ones who can. Not pray to a higher power to fix things, as some Christians appear to do. [I don't know; I don't want to generalize here.]

So, I tend to agree with what you said here. It is a bit more complex, because I do believe in prayer and that God does have a purpose, but I don't focus so much on these things that I deny my own heart, powers of reasoning, and ability to act.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEfJpJ1lhQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzK9hdiuMDY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iSVF2XM7yQ

These are just some of my reasons

 

My very cynical outlook is that all people have a "God", whether they admit it or not or even whether they're aware of it or not. Atheists included.

By that I mean some complex of irrational or arbitrary beliefs that frame life, the world, etc.

So the actual advantage of believing in "God" may be in the fact that you're not in denial about believing in "God."

I would define "God" as "fallback or default orientation when facing uncertainty."

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I really enjoyed the videos Stripes, thank you

Nadette, it makes me sad to hear you say these things, although
i think you wrote what many people actually feel, even if they
don't admit it. Life can be a bitch, and i also find myself asking
the tough questions about life, God and the world in general.
I'm holding out for this magical place in the sky. It's the only
thing that gets me through some days

I read a quote not long ago. It went like this :

Why is it when we talk to God its called Prayer,
When God talks to us its called insanity.

Just made me think .

Yes, bella, I agree; I think religion is a personal choice.

TheJan, my view is rather like yours--everything happens. And things have consequence. I don't believe there's anyone in charge--how can they? I feel like it's almost an insult to the beauty of the universe that I see, the chaotic and yet orderly ways it functions, to have someone who knows what will happen.

Nadette, I'm sorry that you feel that way. I think my views differ in that I don't believe in life after death. I think of my life as limited. I think I have one chance. And with that chance, I am empowered to do so much. Yes, my friends have let me down. One of my online friends led me to believe a girl I'd talked to for two weeks died in a car crash. Five months later, it turned out she never existed. But I don't see the point in holding onto anger. I accept that it was a horrible ordeal. But I believe in his regret, and we're still close. His friendship is one of the strongest points of happiness in my life. My father's never said a loving word to me--but I choose not to hold onto that sorrow. I take what I can and move on. I think we are all limited. And I think it's beautiful that we can love each other, that we can feel happiness, even when the world is horrible. I think it's tragic that people forget to live, that they ignore all the rich experiences this life has to offer because they're waiting for the next one. Where you are right now, you will never be again. What is happening can never happen again. I see beauty in the temporary things, because they begin, but they also end. And I try to always be aware of that, to rejoice in this life, without worrying about someone who's watching me or what will happen later, after I'm dead. Because really, if there is a next life, many religions say I'm going to suffer anyway. And I won't believe in something that says, if I live and love and try to help people but I still get tortured, then it goes against all my morals to believe out of fear. And if there is none, then why care? Instead I can live my life to the fullest, measuring each moment because it's unique. Nobody has ever, or will ever, experience what I am experiencing again. And if I can make it better for someone else, then their experience is enriched, too.

So I suppose that is my God--my belief in myself and how precious this existence is. But God implies a power--I do not claim myself as a God. I think that's arrogant. I believe in my limitations. But I also believe in my strengths.

I'll reply to all the rest later--my Droid is running out of battery. Thank you for all the interesting replies!

Also, the idea of perfection is something I don't...well, I don't like it, to be honest.

Think of a rose. Think of all the roses you've seen--budding, half-opened, fully in bloom. Their colors, the way their petals are arranged. All of them are beautiful, yes? [I chose an example that is universally agreed to be beautiful, so forgive me if you don't actually think it's beautiful. Replace it with something you think is. ] Anyway. So all of these roses--they're imperfect, are they not? None of them are the same. But their imperfections, their deviations from each other, serve to characterize them, to make them beautiful.

But what if there were a perfect rose? What would you think upon hearing about it? And if you went to go see it--why, it would be the most beautiful rose in the world. Absolutely no imperfections. Stunningly beautiful. Naturally, you would love it--I mean, it's perfect. Or maybe you don't need to see it. You Judy know it exists. You know it is flawless. And this rose lives forever, this rose never withers away. It stays there, perfect, unchanging. But what comes after that?

Wouldn't every rose you see after it be imperfect? Wouldn't you forever be noticing the tiny dead petals tucked away on the edge of the rose, the yellowing leaf on its stem? And would you not be dissatisfied, seeing these imperfections and thinking of that one perfect rose? Because you have seen the ultimate ideal, the ultimate perfection of roses--how could any of them possibly compare?

And so I feel the same thing with the idea of this perfect love. I would forever be thinking of this higher love, placing importance on it, idealizing it. Suddenly my other loves are not the same; they are imperfect, temporary. There are blemishes. Oh, and I know they cannot help it. But that does not excuse their imperfection; after all, it is their nature. So I would be dissatisfied, continually thinking, yearning for this higher love. Even if this higher love gives me the other loves--why be unfaithful to it, and devote the most of my attention to these lesser things, these lesser people? I should dedicate my life to pursuing this ideal, and forget or always compare what I have to this perfection I seek.

I don't want that. I don't believe in perfection. I am so, so grateful for all that I have--I have love, I have people who love me, how wonderful is that? Why should I look to something greater, that I personally am not so sure exists, and diminish what I have because of this supposed "greater, perfect love"? And what beauty would I find in something that lasts forever? Isn't the most beautiful rose all that much more beautiful because it is temporary, because it has to end? I feel like religion, for some people, makes them dissatisfied. They have something, yes, and they are grateful--but they look to something that seems to me, unrealistic. And it numbs them to what they already have, because they believe in something greater than their love for someone.

Gah, sorry, just, not Judy. Stupid Droid.

I guess I agree with Haumea here. Whatever your beliefs, they're basically arbitrary and not based in any concrete knowledge. I'm really not much different than you Sakari. I was raised by the "Golden Rule" and that's about it. My beliefs are pretty much the same as yours, with a bit of TheJan's beliefs. At the least, it's a positive energy in the universe, an inclination towards being loving ( and why does it make you feel so good?? ), or just a sense that we're not as individual as we think. I just call it God because it feels comfortable to me. It seems, in essence, to be what others refer to as God. Just something beyond yourself that makes it's presence known from time to time.

And Nadette, once you get past expecting people to be what they can never be, it get's alot easier. It's a wild world, not an ideal world. But still beautiful. 

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for sharing, caprice.

I think that for me, I don't believe it's beyond myself--rather, within myself, and it's something I have a choice in? I suppose that doesn't make that much of a difference. I guess it's that I feel empowered, connected to things by my own doing. I'm turned off by Christianity and monotheistic religions in general because it seems to be a relinquishing of control, of awareness, and thus I reject the concept of calling anything "God"--I don't believe anybody can be omnipotent, or could have created this world. However, your concept of God, caprice, I think closely mirrors my philosophy.

Haha, I'm not sure whether or not you were asking the question in jest or earnest. But I think there are so many things to relish, so many simple joys--the moments of comfort, waking up from a nap, or the joy of human interaction, of learning something about them or sharing a laugh or listening to a story, the moments when I write and things fall into place, or when I get an email saying I'm going to be published--those are so unique to my life. And I suppose what is key to my euphoria is having someone who loves me--who listens and understands and pays me compliments not because he feels he has to, but because he's observing these things in the moment, swept away by the present, and I think that when you find someone who gives unconditional support, you really start to understand how important happiness is. I guess God's love is unconditional, but I don't know if it would do much for me--because I want to give back. To listen to the other person's secret dreams or learn about their life, to see them and automatically smile, to know their flaws and love them anyway, because that makes it them. That is part of what I really enjoy, but I don't really think you get that from God. xD There's a quote from a book I read that rings true: "Love wins. Love always wins."

To have that, and to share it, to open doors for people or share a piece of French bread, or keep eye contact while really listening to their story--these moments of connection are the things I love about life. They're unconnected to a God--they're so human. As a writer, I am perpetually fascinated by these behaviors, by how we interact, how events unfold. Exploring life as it is, as something that gives and takes and reacts within itself--the idea of a god doesn't even factor into my perspective on life. I mean, it's life. I live it, I love it, and when it sucks, I improvise. I love the self-made nature of a life lived purely for oneself, to serve my interest in helping others. And I suppose that's why God isn't necessary for me.

I'm not sure if that made sense or if that even answered the question. But hey, it's late. xD I'mma sleep and come back to this.

Oohm, I think I may have come off a little differently than I intended here... I'm not actually that depressed or dark about life. I totally have all the ENFP zest for life and am familiar with much joy and beauty in life. I don't expect people to be perfect and am ok with that. I was just trying to distill the reality behind why I believe in God. Seriously, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the futility, absurdity, and suffering inherent in life on this planet is in denial. Everyone has to find a way to answer this reality. I have done this by acknowledging God and my (and the world's) need for a savior.

On kind of a side note, Sakuri, you say that you are comfortable with imperfection and even like it. But, how have you personally come to grips with the fact that there are people who are being tortured by fellow human beings right in this very moment? How have you come to grips with the fact that there is basically nothing you can do about this and that one day you may find yourself in the position of torturer or tortured? Frankly, this concept really disturbs me. I cannot just accept this without some kind of explanation or hope for redemption. How do you begin to explain your existence?

I'm not saying I have all the answers. Indeed, I consider myself on a spiritual journey and continue to question and change my beliefs. But I am currently satisfied to admit my limitations and need for a savior who is infinitely more aware of the universe, is powerfully and perfectly and unfailingly loving, and is therefore going to work everything out for good. I can't prove this to be absolutely true, but neither can I come up with something better to believe. Also, I have to believe that God is perfectly loving because only then can I trust God to be someone worth trusting in. If the most powerful being in existence is not perfectly good, is not pure love....we are screwed. As for Hell, I don't think I believe in that. At least, I have not been able to come to terms with a loving God sending people to Hell that had integrity. There is a verse in the Bible that says that God judges our hearts. If someone lived their life with integrity and love, but did not say the magical sinners prayer....they are not condemned to Hell in my book.

It is my joy and privilege to have faith in a God who became a comrade in my (our) suffering. Because of this, I have faith that suffering is not in vain and that the glories of Heaven will make up for any pain we experience in this life. Of course, if you do not believe in the afterlife then this is not especially helpful... Um, like I said, I'm not ready to prove anything, but this is the basic shape of what I believe. I guess I consider the possibility of an afterlife to be plausible since there is a part of me that is not part of my body. There is that "light" of life that leaves when you die. Our consciousness can't exactly be pinpointed and defined and described. We have this inherent spiritual element to our being. What happens to this? Does the light just go off?

I understand there are people being tortured. And I plan to help them in whatever way I can. Here in Alabama, homophobia is prevalent--people are discriminated against, beat up, hissed at, and most people justify this behavior with the Bible. I don't think that's right. I don't believe one is allowed to discriminate against someone based on 2000 year old laws. People are people, love is love, regardless of what form it takes. So I try to speak out against it, taking part in a GSF and try to make as many people aware as possible. It isn't limited to homophobia--whenever I see cruelty, I try to call attention to it [although perhaps my approach here isn't as effective as it is in real life ] and I try to rectify it. Sometimes humans aren't aware of their own cruelty, myself included.

You talk about believing in a God to let yourself come to terms with suffering. I ask myself a different question--how can God let all this suffering happen? So I take it upon myself to relieve some of it. So many atrocities are being committed in the name of religion--female circumcision, genocide...a girl in Afghanistan got her nose and ears cut off for seeing a boy or something, because it violated her family's religion--I take it upon myself to try to help fight that. I'm a writer, getting published in spring; I want to write something like the Kite Runner, and couple cultural awareness with powerful storytelling. I'm a long way away from that, but I think that raising awareness is the first step. Oh, and the Peace Corps. Heh, I'm thinking about joining. Anyway, I just think that if I am conscious, and if I try to help--then it's a lot more than most, and if I help some people along the way, great. However small the difference is, it all adds up.

And I think the consciousness is contained in the human brain, but I think we can tap into the collective conscious, as we progress and start learning how to use more than 10% of our brain.

Nadette, I was wondering what you were trying to say with your post, and not entirely sure. You certainly seem to be a grounded person with solid coping skills so I was not inclined to think that you weren't literally suicidal in any way. But idealists in general can sometimes be disappointed with the real world. I still grapple with it somedays. But I get where you were going with your post. Whether it's called God, or Love, etc.. it's important to me to believe in some prevailing decency in the universe. So maybe that's the answer to your question Sakari. I don't wait for it to come to me either. I create it and acknowledge it were I see it. And I try to see it in as many places as possible.

Once again, I really don't think people are so different. We get caught up in semantics.

I don't need a God. I just want there to be one. I have an ideal of a perfect, omnipresent, omnipotent, benevolent, loving being who is this God. I'm confused as to how this God could possibly exist (at least in my idealized picturing of him) when I look at our world. I seek possible arguments and answers which could convince me otherwise. I'm not going to submit to a "God" unless he lives up to my ideal. I have not discovered an argument or heard an answer yet (or had God talk to me) which can convince me otherwise, so I am temporarily an atheist. I don't think I'm missing out on anything with this philosophy. I just want a God who can make the world a better place, who can right what I perceive as its wrongs, who will heal my dad when nothing else can...

Oh dear. What's up with your dad, if you feel comfortable letting us know? I hope he gets better.

Huntington's Disease... it's uncurable. Wikipedia gives a pretty accurate description of what it does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington%27s_disease . The signs and symptoms part (when you scroll down) delineates what it does.