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Question to the Atheists - and anyone of like-mind
Last Post 19 Oct 2011 06:53 PM by fleetwell. 55 Replies.
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JustinRWatson User is Offline
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26 Dec 2010 08:25 PM  

Lack of belief? You do not believe in God, therefore, you believe he does not exists. Isn't that a belief in itself? Every human believes in something. They believe something about the universe. Everything we have is a belief system until it has been proven, and then, you no longer believe, you know.

 

Christian's are commonly asked to defend their own beliefs. I find this somewhat interesting, considering that atheism is also a belief in itself. Atheists hardly get the chance to justify their beliefs because Christians are always so busy justifying their own beliefs. So I would like to allow the atheists their time to speak.

Why are you so adamant that God does not exist? And how does this make your life a more positive and enlightening experience?

"I'm just the paint, you paint the picture.. What are you seeing? What are you feeling?"
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27 Dec 2010 02:37 PM  
Well, there's the difference. I don't believe a god exists--but then again, I don't believe that he doesn't exist, either. I don't go around proclaiming, "There is no god!" and engage in debate about whether or not there is one. For me, saying "I don't believe in a god" is the same thing as saying, "I don't believe in flying pancakes." xD I don't really see the need to disprove it.

As far as why he doesn't exist--I frankly see no reason to believe in one. The universe exists. Okay, awesome. Does it need to be run by someone? No, not really. I love my independence. I love the illusion of choice. [I've had lots of conversations about whether or not choice actually exists, or if we do things influenced by other factors, so I'll just play it safe and say 'illusion.' ] Do I want to act according to someone's plan? Err, no. Do I need to believe there is one? Again, no. I mean, I understand that it's really great to believe in one, to have his love and whatnot--but personally, I just can't believe that. I have a George Carlin quote that expresses this: "Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money."

So for me, God doesn't exist because I see no reason to believe he does. As far as making it more positive and enlightening--I feel more in control. I don't need to submit to a higher authority or feel helpless. Yes, sometimes my life is in the hands of Fate, or destiny, or whatever--but that's chance and chaos theory and whatnot. But it's my life. I get one shot at the world. I have all of these friends, these opportunities, this knowledge--I'm not going to waste it and let it rest in the hands of some deity. I won't look to the afterlife and forget how to live. I don't waste mental energy worrying about sin or waste time praying to a God about things I could potentially change myself. It's really empowering, that I can care about other people and do all of these things, without need for something greater, because I believe that whatever is "greater" is the fact that I can love something, and that I can help something. And if I'm going to burn for trying to be a good person but not believing--well, then I don't want to believe in that religion anyway.
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27 Dec 2010 05:21 PM  
Sounds like your life's philosophy is a very liberating one. .. It's a matter of finding what sets you free and brings you the greatest sense of betterment I suppose.. So I'm glad you have found that place where you feel content. It's a great feeling.

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money."

Haha.. Interesting.. It's sad that people actually do believe this. I don't actually believe any of the stuff written here.. But, it's interesting to think that there are individuals out there who would believe in a God who was so cruel as to burn people forever, and steal the believer's money in the process.. Sounds rather brutal doesn't it..?

I feel more in control. I don't need to submit to a higher authority or feel helpless.

Interesting. I don't believe having a spiritual connection with God is about submitting to a higher authority and feeling helpless. It's a shame that some people have portrayed this..

It's good that you have found your niche. A lot of people spend their entire life looking for their niche. Sometimes this search to fit-in somewhere or be accepted, etc. can be quite a frustrating search. But on the same token, I would like to quote a buddhist saying made famous by "The Last Samurai":
"The perfect blossom is a rare thing. You could spend your life looking for one, and it would not be a wasted life"
"I'm just the paint, you paint the picture.. What are you seeing? What are you feeling?"
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27 Dec 2010 06:23 PM  
Southern Baptists have severely disillusioned me as to what Christianity is. xD The homophobes don't do much to better my opinion. Being preached at, ranted at, and stereotyped as amoral and evil also doesn't help. But the ones I've met on this forum have definitely changed my mind.
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28 Dec 2010 01:00 AM  

To Sakari: if you don't believe God exists, but don't necessarily believe God doesn't exist that technically makes you agnostic as opposed to atheist. Just sayin. 

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28 Dec 2010 08:36 AM  
the ones I've met on this forum have definitely changed my mind.
Yay!
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28 Dec 2010 11:30 AM  
I'm most likely closest to a baptist then to anything else. Southern baptists make me want to stab a knife in my ears. >.< they drive me absolutely NUTS!
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28 Dec 2010 05:44 PM  
Welcome to the South. xD

@Caprice: Well, atheism is defined as "absence of belief in any gods," which is essentially my viewpoint. There are two camps--"weak atheism," in which one says, "Sure, there might be a god--but I don't believe in him." "Strong atheism" is when one says, "There is no god." I am of the latter. It's like a scale--one has positive belief, belief in a god, and the other side has negative belief, that there very adamantly is no god, and I'm in between, having no belief whatsoever. I believe in something different; the concept of a god is not necessary to my belief system. I hope that makes sense? xD Because I'm quite sure I'm not an agnostic--they believe that the truth is impossible to discover or something.
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29 Dec 2010 02:19 AM  

Oh well, I still think that equates you to Agnostic, but I guess it depends on which definition you're going with.   Anyways, Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Buddist, Muslim, are all labels and inhibit the potential for agreement, in my mind. I've noticed that you seem to only equate God with a specifically Christian, man in the sky sorting all of the world's prroblems. There are other interpretations of God that aren't really theologically based. You are free to come to any conclusion you wish. In my case I had to shake off all associations and allow for Ne.

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30 Dec 2010 01:42 AM  

O.K., one LAST entry on the topic, because Sakari, it matters not what you believe. You seem like a great person and so it's really inconsequential. Same goes to all other posters here. But there are soooo many associations and defintions of the words we are throwing around ( Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, never mind God ), that it's hard to have a conversation that acknowledges our genuine beliefs. And ultimately, what does it matter?

Asking why people need to believe in God (the last thread) is kind of like asking why people need to cry. You'll find several theories, lots of people with strong opinions or gut instincts, others refuting these opinions, theories or gut instincts, or some people saying "I'm not sure, but maybe it's.... " or " I have no idea." Or some people that don't find it necessary at all. It's an unknown, so we fill in the blanks with the information, value systems, intuition we have at hand at the time. This may change over time. So in my mind, I just let people fill in the blanks however they choose ( as long as they're not being oppressive or mean spirited ). I don't have the answers, just some personal beliefs, so who am I to judge someone else's personal beliefs?

We're all just grappling humans. Broad interrpretations and tolerance within reason seem to be key.

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30 Dec 2010 02:34 AM  
Yes, another post, but an addendum. How crying relates to a belief in God is this: The overwhemling majority of humans have some sort of sense, intuition, belief that there is something beyod the individual that matters in a crucial way.
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30 Dec 2010 03:46 PM  
**waiting for another caprice addendum....**
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30 Dec 2010 04:13 PM  
Hehe.. Naww... We have found a capricism.. .. A quirk from one of our valued members.. hehe..
One who is agnostic holds no solid beliefs - usually because they are unsure or because they don't care. A true atheist holds strongly that there is no God, and they are adamant about it.

Sure, there might be a god--but I don't believe in him.

Hmm.. This is not atheistic though, this is an agnostic frame of mind. Atheism holds that there is no God. The "might-be" concept that you have portrayed in this statement sounds very agnostic.

Southern baptists make me want to stab a knife in my ears.

Rogarn (or anyone else who can answer for me), what is it that Southern baptists do that make you feel this way?

I don't have the answers, just some personal beliefs, so who am I to judge someone else's personal beliefs?

Totally with you on that one Caprice..

In final concern to labels and labeling.. I believe it important that one creates their own labels, whilst at the same time, living up to what their label says about them. In other words, this is an analogy for - PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!
"I'm just the paint, you paint the picture.. What are you seeing? What are you feeling?"
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30 Dec 2010 04:28 PM  
"All you must do is believe in the Lord your God, and you will have eternal life!".............................................
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30 Dec 2010 04:30 PM  
Enquirey - isn't that biblical...?
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30 Dec 2010 05:14 PM  

Well, my definition of agnostic = still seeking/open to proof, whereas I'm pretty solid in my lack of belief? It's kind of like...to a Christian, why don't they believe in Allah? Or Odin? Or Zeus? Everybody is atheist about all the gods except the one[s] they worship [unless you're pantheistic], I just happen to take it a step further. I reject the idea of God, but I don't go so far as to claim he doesn't exist, because in order to do so, I would have to have proofs, and I've argued ceaselessly with people about this--my proofs do not satisfy them, and thus I take the weaker atheist stance in order to avoid conflict. The "might-be" is a simple concession to the idea, because of course we don't know, but I choose not to believe in the "might-be," or even consider adopting it myself.

I agree that labels inhibit things, but may be necessary in order to distinguish things? However, there are varying faiths, and it's necessary that they require a name, but of course, stereotypes are going to prevail. I dunno.

I think my "vision" of God is influenced by geographical features--I live in the South, therefore it's going to be the primary thing I draw off of. However, my idea and subsequent rejection of an omnipotent God extends to the three major monotheistic faiths--Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. [Although Judaism can also be considered more of a culture? I dunno.] My primary "belief" is in myself, and in the actions and consequences of humans, and the fact that there is no prevailing, sentient force that creates them or controls them.

And yes, I do agree that there are different ideas, different rationale for believing in a God--the purpose of my thread was to understand as many of them as I could. And it really changed my thinking. I think if you define God as "belief that there is something beyond the individual," then I equate God to human love and human consciousness. I just disagree with the idea that there needs to be a manifestation of purpose, that it needs to take a "form"--it feels like taking a thread from a beautiful tapestry and saying, "This is the center of the entire thing, this is what is most important." Or taking a story and saying, "This is all that it is about." I don't think meaning is found that way. I dunno.

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30 Dec 2010 06:26 PM  
Sakari, i can totally relate to everything you wrote.
I think that the idea of a god is not necessary, as god is not the important thing here. The important thing about religion is not the idea of a god, but the way people interact. The people are more important than god. I think that if there is a god out there, than he cares more about his people than about the size of his... church (couldn't resist, really ) Why does god need a house anyway? Does god live in the church and doesn't go outside? I think that god is with all people, in all people, at the same time. God is in everything at every time, not just in a house where people go to see him on Sunday mornings.

And yes, I do agree that there are different ideas, different rationale for believing in a God--the purpose of my thread was to understand as many of them as I could. And it really changed my thinking. I think if you define God as "belief that there is something beyond the individual," then I equate God to human love and human consciousness. I just disagree with the idea that there needs to be a manifestation of purpose, that it needs to take a "form"--it feels like taking a thread from a beautiful tapestry and saying, "This is the center of the entire thing, this is what is most important." Or taking a story and saying, "This is all that it is about." I don't think meaning is found that way. I dunno.


*cheers*
I, too, do not believe in an entity-like god. My understanding of god is a lot like yours. As i mentioned in another thread, my idea of God goes somewhere along the lines of "something beyond the individual". I guess i "feel god" most in acts in of kindness, of friendship and such things, and in the beauty of nature. I don't "feel god" when i go into church. It is a sticky place without much sunlight. And everyone is listening to what one guy in the front says. As i said, god is "in people", "in everything" for me.

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30 Dec 2010 06:38 PM  
^_^

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09 Feb 2011 02:46 AM  
Short version:

Not believing in gods is not a belief.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. God exists=claim.
I am not adamant in my disbelief in gods. I simply want to know the truth and theists have failed to convince me so far.
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09 Feb 2011 04:22 AM  
Short version:

Not believing in gods is not a belief.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. God exists=claim.
I am not adamant in my disbelief in gods. I simply want to know the truth and theists have failed to convince me so far.


On the contrary.. In like manner, the existence of God has not been disproven. In fact, millions have made the claim for evidences of the supernatural (ie. unexplainable by natural forces). God Does Not Exist=Claim. In like manner, atheism is also a belief system.. It is not proven fact.
"I'm just the paint, you paint the picture.. What are you seeing? What are you feeling?"
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