I used to think Wisdom the highest virtue, or at least the most important thing/thing I wanted most, so I've been working towards it for years. Of course I didn't know what it was, and looking back I'm not even sure how I'd begin to cultivate it, but for a while that didn't stop me from trying . I'd prayed about it, thought about it, tried to figure out what it would look like in each situation life brought along, etc. Recently I've become aware that this pursuit has mostly just served to make me miserable and alienate me from nearly everyone else around me. Not like I don't talk to them, or anything, but it certainly put some sort of distance there. For a while, that was perfectly fine. After all, I'd've rather had the truth than people. More recently that hasn't been cutting it, though.

A few weeks ago, I decided that it wasn't as necessary as I thought it to be, and shifted my focus towards love. I would like to love people to the point that third parties think I'm being absurd and naive with it. Maybe I do want to be absurd and naive with it; I haven't really decided yet. For the time being, though, I'm shifting all my attention towards finding what makes people valuable, finding ways to respect them and appreciate their concerns (especially when I don't see why such insignificant things matter), praying for random people I pass on the street and the concerns that I can perceive just by looking at them, and trying to will myself to be hurt by bad things that happen to other people (<-- this one's probably the hardest to remember/least likely to happen), and things like that.

What about you guys? If you could pick one character trait/quality/virtue to develop, what would it be, and (if you want to explain) why?

 (sorry for multiple posts). Actually, my essential ethos is:

 What is going on here?

 and

 How can I become a self-fulfilling causative agent in it?

 and

 Utter and absolute non-investment in any perspective or group. I feel that to be the prequisite to true knowledge.

Integrity & Humility. Those are the two virtues I really respect the most.

Plato describes "The Form of the Good" in his dialogue, the Republic, speaking through the character of Socrates. The Sun is described in a simile as the child or offspring (ekgonos) of the Form of the Good (508c-509a), in that, like the sun which makes physical objects visible and generates life on earth, the Good makes all other universals intelligible, and in some sense provides being to all things in the cosmos, though the Good itself surpasses being.[1] It is the ideal or perfect nature of goodness, and so an absolute measure of justice. Plato also explains his theory of justice in the Republic, in relation to his conception of a city in speech, both of which necessitate rule of the rational mind; in other words, philosopher-kings, who can grasp the Form of the Good.

Plato said that the highest form of knowledge is the Form (or Idea) of the Good, from which things that are just gain their usefulness and value. Humans have a duty to pursue the good, but no one can hope to do this successfully without philosophical reasoning. According to Plato, true science was conversant, not about those material forms and imperfect intelligences which we meet within our daily interactions with all mankind, however it investigated the nature of those purer and more perfect patterns which were the models after which all created beings were formed. Plato supposes these perfect types to have existed from all eternity and calls them the Forms or Ideas. As these Forms can not be perceived by human senses, whatever knowledge we derive from that source is unsatisfactory and uncertain. He maintains that degree of skepticism which denies all permanent authority to the evidence of sense. Having discovered or created the realm of Forms, he surveyed it throughout. Plato defined its most excellent forms from goodness as the "Hierarchy of Forms". This suggests that from goodness comes such things as justice, truth, equality and beauty, among many others. Plato then determines what was the supreme and dominant principle of the whole. It is the Form of the Good.

Aristotle was critical of the Forms of Good, and discussed it several times in both of his major surviving ethical works, the Eudemian and Nichomachean Ethics.[2]

Either you have to conclude that there is some underlying "truth," or you have to conclude that the universe has no purpose or meaning, and frankly I find the idea of that depressing.

Posted By sbalbom on 09 Oct 2009 08:44 AM
When you live for someone else's meaning you are their slave.

That's certainly the mindset that turns a lot of people off theistic religions like christianity. People don't like the idea of  being property, or of being wholly subject to somebody, and in theistic religions like christianity, god is the ruler over all creation. The thing people often pass over when they dismiss the idea of god as a "dictator," is that god would be a rightful "dictator," and a benevolent "dictator." Christians (and presumably muslim and hindis as well) don't find the idea of being subject to the rule of their god repulsive, because they believe their god has the right to rule. Go figure.

Posted By sbalbom on 09 Oct 2009 08:44 AM
I rather give my own meaning.

Wait a minute - aren't we talking about the form of the good? The form of the good is supposed to be the ideal or perfect nature of goodness. If it does exist, then it is a universal - a global constant - you can't "give" your own form of the good, because you aren't universal (unless you're a scientologist). In the absence of the form of the good, you can construct your own value system based on your own ideas about truth, morals and meanings etc. That's fine, but when you pass out of this mortal coil, your value system is going to go out with you, which means that the essence of the universe is meaningless, even if you can "make" some meaning to live by. Hence the nihilistic (and IMO depressing) view that there is no greater meaning to life - once you're gone it won't "matter" how you spent your life.

This of course brings up a whole lot of deep questions about what exactly meaning is anyway, but screw them - I have jobs to meet and people to do. 42!!!

The ability to say things effectively--not through text, but in actual conversation. There are so many times when I feel helpless when I'm trying to comfort someone/convey what I mean. The idea is dancing out there, but I don't have enough hooks to catch it and as such, I don't say them and feel even worse. I guess the virtue would be to defuse situations verbally, or intuitively being able to handle whatever situation is thrown at me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and I would really like to be able to hone that. Not sure if it's a virtue, though.

Maybe the virtue to make people feel better while not compromising myself into a lie? I don't know.

Posted By cryptonia on 30 Sep 2009 07:14 PM

A few weeks ago, I decided that it wasn't as necessary as I thought it to be, and shifted my focus towards love. I would like to love people to the point that third parties think I'm being absurd and naive with it. Maybe I do want to be absurd and naive with it; I haven't really decided yet. For the time being, though, I'm shifting all my attention towards finding what makes people valuable, finding ways to respect them and appreciate their concerns (especially when I don't see why such insignificant things matter), praying for random people I pass on the street and the concerns that I can perceive just by looking at them, and trying to will myself to be hurt by bad things that happen to other people (<-- this one's probably the hardest to remember/least likely to happen), and things like that.

What about you guys? If you could pick one character trait/quality/virtue to develop, what would it be, and (if you want to explain) why?

^^^^DUDE! -hugs- SO digging this! 
That is exactly how I strive to live my life. Loving to the point of absurdity, none of my friends understand how/ why I love as much as I do.  But it's one of my giftings, God blessed me with a heart that can love people, purely recklessly, and honestly, without getting bitter no matter how many times my heart is shattered. I have pledged to spend my life loving and caring for the needs of others. In my opinion, that is the only thing worth pursuing in this life. Especially in practical means, providing food for the hungry, care for the sick and help for the needy. But it can take a toll on my own health ha. I often forget to give myself that same type of love that I give others, so I am working diligently on falling in love with myself and caring for myself in practical ways.  

Posted By thedeepestblue on 09 Oct 2009 01:35 PM

Hence the nihilistic (and IMO depressing) view that there is no greater meaning to life - once you're gone it won't "matter" how you spent your life.

Don't be shortsighted. Jump into a pool (or the ocean), make a splash, and quickly get back out. Watch the ripples spread out across the surface, even long after you've left.

Our universe doesn't willingly lose information. The existence and achievements of every single one of us will leave its mark on the universe forever, and in this sense always remembered, regardless of the meaning of it all. You're free to give it your own meaning, and you will matter.

I'd hafta go with wisdom as the central virtue. If other virtues are used unwisely, what's the point?

Posted By ovek on 18 Oct 2009 09:42 AM

Posted By thedeepestblue on 09 Oct 2009 01:35 PM

Hence the nihilistic (and IMO depressing) view that there is no greater meaning to life - once you're gone it won't "matter" how you spent your life.

Don't be shortsighted. Jump into a pool (or the ocean), make a splash, and quickly get back out. Watch the ripples spread out across the surface, even long after you've left.

Our universe doesn't willingly lose information. The existence and achievements of every single one of us will leave its mark on the universe forever, and in this sense always remembered, regardless of the meaning of it all. You're free to give it your own meaning, and you will matter.

I can see what you mean, but my argumentative streak is indignantly wanting to rebut you, and I am helpless to resist.

Obviously we change the world around us and may very well continue to affect it hundreds of years after our death. But yet, I'm not convinced whether that equates to meaning outside of ourselves and our own value systems, which is what I think the form of the good is meant to be. It's fine to say "you're free to give it your own meaning," but the idea of the form of the good (which is what I've been babbling about when I say things like "greater meaning") is that it is global and absolute.

Changing the grand scale of the universe is good and all, but does it actually have any meaning outside of ourselves? Are the ripples you make in your tiny corner of the ocean really going to make a noticable difference in the vast entirety of it? Are a few microscopic changes in the currents among trillions going to make an impression? Always remembered? Maybe. But always remembered by whom?

You can change the course of a few atoms in a hundred million years, and you can find meaning in that, it's not my place to challenge it. You don't have to believe in some greater good to live a good, productive, meaningful life (I never said nihilists were immoral people). But I still say that isn't meaning in terms of the form of the good. If there's no form of the good, you may affect the universe around you for millions of years, and that may matter to you on a personal level, but it's not global, not absolute, not perpetual.

You may care about it infinitely, but outside of yourself (and those who share your value system) it doesn't matter.

Posted By Nathan on 04 Nov 2009 02:36 AM
Discipline. I desire discipline to follow through on my ideals of what is right and good.

Couldn't agree more not sure it's something I'll ever achieve though...

Posted By Charlie on 14 Oct 2009 11:29 PM

Posted By cryptonia on 30 Sep 2009 07:14 PM

A few weeks ago, I decided that it wasn't as necessary as I thought it to be, and shifted my focus towards love. I would like to love people to the point that third parties think I'm being absurd and naive with it. Maybe I do want to be absurd and naive with it; I haven't really decided yet. For the time being, though, I'm shifting all my attention towards finding what makes people valuable, finding ways to respect them and appreciate their concerns (especially when I don't see why such insignificant things matter), praying for random people I pass on the street and the concerns that I can perceive just by looking at them, and trying to will myself to be hurt by bad things that happen to other people (<-- this one's probably the hardest to remember/least likely to happen), and things like that.

What about you guys? If you could pick one character trait/quality/virtue to develop, what would it be, and (if you want to explain) why?

^^^^DUDE! -hugs- SO digging this! 
That is exactly how I strive to live my life. Loving to the point of absurdity, none of my friends understand how/ why I love as much as I do.  But it's one of my giftings, God blessed me with a heart that can love people, purely recklessly, and honestly, without getting bitter no matter how many times my heart is shattered. I have pledged to spend my life loving and caring for the needs of others. In my opinion, that is the only thing worth pursuing in this life. Especially in practical means, providing food for the hungry, care for the sick and help for the needy. But it can take a toll on my own health ha. I often forget to give myself that same type of love that I give others, so I am working diligently on falling in love with myself and caring for myself in practical ways.  

aww.... I missed this while I was away, and your profile says it's been almost 2 weeks since you were active last .  In case you see this, though, your post made me feel really warm/glad.  Thanks

Posted By Zsych on 05 Dec 2009 09:53 AM
In self: wisdom
In others: wisdom is nice, but I'll do with honesty.

Same here