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I've studied it for 11 years (in serious depth as you can imagine.)  Now that I've looked into MBTI I'm starting to see how to convert a natal chart into a MBTI type. It's kinda cool, actually.

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I don't really know how much I buy into astrology.... I don't really believe in predestination, and fate only to a minor degree. The idea of the alignment of stars correlating to the time of someone's birth seems silly to me, because if I took it seriously, I'd have to be irritated that who I am and what I'm supposed to do is mapped out beyond my control. I'm a strong believer in free will.

There's a difference between predestination and fatalism. In popular parlance the two are often conflated.

Is there predestination? I believe so. But what that predestination is in specific terms is UNKNOWABLE -- to an astrologer or anyone else for that matter. Astrologers deal with guesswork, probabilities and abstractions more so than the concrete and the specific.

To put it in other words, the universe may unfold in a certain mathematical (fractal, I believe) pattern, but it is beyond the capability of any mortal to make highly concrete predictions based on that fact.

It is the same as with any abstract body of knowledge -- whether astrology, MBTI or reading chicken entrails. E.g. MBTI can't predict whether any given ENFP is a journalist, a novelist or a psychologist, e.g.

But nevertheless, they are highly probabilistic systems which illuminate abstract qualities.

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It's rather convenient to argue that things are predestined yet unknowable. It's like the invisible pink unicorn....which in spite of being invisible has the quality of being pink. >.> And pardon me if you will....but lumping the 3 of those together... O.o really? I'm not saying MBTI is the end all to be all of personality type - it's just a piece of a much larger, more complex puzzle.... But there's logic behind it. What's the logic behind slicing open an animal and tossing its guts on the ground to see the future? What is the logic behind saying that the position of celestial bodies has any say on who I am as a person? Did someone meet a large number of people born on a particular date when the stars were aligned just so, determine their personalities, compare it objectively, and then note the similarities? Or did someone deem themselves a spiritualist with a greater understanding than mere mortals and divine a bunch of descriptions that could potentially be altered to fit anyone if they were looking for a description that fit them? >.> Religions... and other faith-based beliefs do have a habit of applying scientific labels and jargon to themselves to be taken more seriously.

Unless I got clocked in the head by a meteorite or was so fascinated by space and the stars that it motivated me to pursue a career involving their study....heck, I'll even throw in wishing on one or the subjective influence of people who kill themselves to get onto an alien spaceship behind a comet.... But as to the stars themselves, and not the romance, mysticism, and the human drive for understanding surrounding them, they have very little to do with the individual, beyond the sun keeping us alive and all.

You have a point with the idea of probabilities.....but I would argue the reverse for astrology at least in regards to the career...and the mbti to a degree. I absolutely hate the career path options at the end of type descriptions. So what if a large percentage is found in those career fields? >.> Is it really pure chance? I mean....couldn't their decision have been influenced by the description? Hmm....wouldn't that be a biased study? And where are the facts and statistics that correlate with this information anyway? Did someone just make up a bunch of careers based on what *sounded* like the type - and maybe it is accurate....but then again, anyone can make up facts that sound reasonable.

I think it is always dangerous to let something outside "dictate" your life, or how you should be. It is dangerous because you don't take responsibility for how you are, or what is happening in your life. If we shift the responsibility of how we are to the stars, then it is not very conductive to growth. And you are simply not free - freedom is not priceless. To be free, you must take responsibility. Responsibility sets people free. Now i am not talking about someone shifting the responsibility to you - that is the opposite of responsibility. Responsibility is when you take your life and decide for yourself what you want to do. Not let the stars influence what you are doing, for example.

I don't believe that we should foresee the future. Do you know of the indeterminacy principle? The more you know one thing, the less you can know another - the more precise your foretelling is, the less precise is the future, because you knowing does change the future. Which means, in essence, that is it impossible to know the future. If we cannot know the future, then why foretell it in the first place and worry about it?

I was talking to my mom about this thread...and she had an interesting little side note to go along with the career part. >.> I guess when her dad was a kid, someone told him he'd be great in sales. He took it to heart....but wasn't good. He spent his life not doing well in a career that he hated because someone told him he should....and his family suffered financially because of it. This is, in essence, why I hate career path crap so much. Sure, you have to have a certain skill set to do whatever it is you have an interest in, but don't ever let anyone tell you that you should or shouldn't apply yourself to a field based on type, your birthdate, your parents' careers, or anything.

I was of the belief that a Pisces male and a Scorpio female were a great match. the relationship was incredibly intense and passionate but short lived. I have a thing for scorpios, so any advice?

Welcome fightcity.

I have no idea where you came from, but I am the better city and this is my territory...

...but since I'm in a good mood, I will give you free roam

i always thought astrology was utter, utter rubbish...but out of curiosity i needed to know more about it (funny that). So i took the time to actually work out a detailed chart using not only the date of my birth but also the time and location. The results shocked me, because they were incredibly insightful. Not at all what i was expecting! I even played with some of the variables to see how it changed (to make sure it wasnt just a generic description) and something like varying time of birth by 15 minutes would produce a completely different personality profile that was a complete miss.

It wasnt just an "oh you are Aries so you must be fired up", it was a lot deeper than that describing different aspects of personality when dealing with business, relationships etc etc. It was far more accurate than i gave it credit for, and it wasnt generic. So IMO there might just be something to the part of astrology that deals with personality due to alignments. If, for example, plasma cosmology has some truth to it then there may be legitimate reasons for different energies at different times. So yeah who knows, i thought it was an interesting journey and it made me think a bit.

However i dont believe there is any predictive power in astrology, certainly not day to day and certainly not for any individual's future. The daily horoscope stuff is complete rubbish.

I follow astrology and I often get frustrated because I want to use it to predict the future, which you can't really do precisely with astrology.
For example, you wouldn't ask a weather-man if you were going to wreak you car tomorrow.
However, a weather man can tell you there might be an ice storm tomorrow, and you will then know to be careful or you might wreak your car on the ice.

I personally believe in reincarnation and I think we all incarnated with a purpose in mind. For example, to learn to be more courageous, or to learn humility.
I think of life like improvisation acting. You kind of set up the scene, and go with it. Sometimes you veer so far away from what you intended the scene to be, it's really funny.

I follow astrology and I often get frustrated because I want to use it to predict the future, which you can't really do precisely with astrology.

Isn't that kind of cheating?

Yes, I am an Aquarius.