I was just curious.  I understand if nobody would want to say so on this thread because I realize it could turn into a debate of whether or not it's right or wrong.  I'm a fag hag myself and extrememly friendly being an ENFP anyway ^.^'  And I also want to add that I prefer there not be any "hatin'" on this thread.  If you have nothing nice to say, then by all means, ignore this thread completely and find other threads on which to comment ;] 

you know for some reason it always surprises me to learn other ppl actually know things. lol kidding. but IM an Openly Gay ENFP!!!!!!!HI

 I'm a 53 year-old gay male English teacher. Was married for 20 years to a woman, have 4 kids. Now married to a delightful INFJ man for the last 10 years. 

Posted By Rogarn on 18 Nov 2010 03:34 PM
What makes you prefer a woman over a man? Are you religious? If not, then what do you believe? How does this factor in, if at all, into your decision to be gay.

I find it interesting that being "gay" seems to have social stigma and concepts of whether it is "right or wrong" attached to it.. I suppose, all I can ask is - why would you bother trying to rationalize or justify a behavior if there was nothing wrong with that behavior to begin with? I have friends who struggle with this all the time..

Opinions?

Posted By Rogarn on 06 Dec 2010 10:38 AM
I am an INTJ. I have to rationalize and justify all behavior. What makes you assume that there is nothing wrong with that behavior? How are you to say that there is or isn't anything wrong with it. Of course there will be a social stigma against it, since it goes against the basic laws of nature, and what society has deemed as right. You will noticed that being gay has only become popular in the past fifty years or so.

Regarding yourself - put being an INTJ aside, you still have an moral compass (your conscience). Certain behaviors you have to rationalize and justify when you know they are wrong.. People who have been incriminated have done this through their lives, and through the action that caused them to be incarcerated.. Rogarn, you do realize that all behavior is not completely random. Having a motivation for behavior is a human trait, not an INTJ trait.. Thus, the justification of behavior is something that everyone does. But, I think you've used this word to mark all behaviors.. Poor word choice perhaps.. I believe we all have a reason for our behavior, but we don't have to justify against our conscience with every single choice we make..

With this being said (and in reference to your quote above), you can justify any laws that go against the basic laws of nature. For example, a man wanting to have a sexual relationship with their pet animal.. There is social stigma against this, and it goes against nature. How are we to say that there is something wrong with this behavior? Sometimes social stigmas are there for a reason.. How far must we rationalize human sexuality before it just becomes immoral? Where does the human race draw the line? Perhaps an individual is very much in love with their pet and just wants to have a "meaningful relationship" with that pet..

Please note, I am not advocating gay rights, nor am I pulling gays rights down. I am just using extremes to draw out what others believe about social boundaries and how far society should go.. I actually sympathize for the GLBT population because they are shunned by quite a number of different parts of society, for example religious groups. So, they must have some kind of rationale or statement that both counteracts these different parts of society, and something that sets them apart from all other "unnatural" sexual practices outside of heterosexuality.. I would just like to have more of an understanding of the homosexual population and why they do what they do..

Of course there will be a social stigma against it, since it goes against the basic laws of nature, and what society has deemed as right. You will noticed that being gay has only become popular in the past fifty years or so.

My apologies if I have offended anyone. I just seek to understand human nature more. And thank you very muchly, you have provided an intriguing insight!

I do realize, however, Justin that you were just trying to argue that anything can be argued

Once again, thank you so much for actually understanding me!! haha.. I do not get many people who understand it when I try and bring this concept out! It's refreshing to have someone who understands what I am trying to explain (because sometimes I don't explain it too well).. So, many credit points to you PurpleGiraffe! .. Sometimes, philosophical ramble can be pointless, because there are many point of views that can be justified or argued (I am not saying that this is necessarily the case here, but it does happen this way). People will go ahead and make their own choices, despite the protest of others anyway. It is called "free-will".. ..

In other words, all gays have to justify their behavior because it is being stigmatized by the populus or even if it wasn't it is "abnormal"

Hmm... This is something I have found interesting, and it seems to make sense.. But often, I do wonder whether there is something more.. We can see that naturally male and female can produce a family and this is a given. So a heterosexual relationship is not a socially constructed phenomena, it is naturally constructed.. I am interested in deciphering how homosexuality came in to solidarity. Many will say that it is the result of a personal decision and socially constructed concepts. However, the people I know who are homosexual explain to me that they were born this way and that they grew up feeling attracted to the same sex.. I do believe more research needs to be applied in this area before people start to make snap-judgements upon the entire GLBT population.. Knowing Why and How would help to clear things up a little.. With this being said - the gay people I know do struggle with this quite a bit...

Scenerio 1 (gay adults) : {adult} + {adult} = potential for mutual benefit
Scenario 2 (serial killer): {adult} - {adult} = one benefits, one loses

This is an interesting model, and I can see the logic behind it. But, I am an ENFP, therefore I am thinking outside the box at the moment.. lol.. Hmm.. For example, having someone put to death may not only benefit the serial killer, but it may also benefit others, likewise two adults coming together in a union may benefit more then just themselves. Thus, there can also be loss for many other people in this circumstance as well..


In regards to all of this, the fight of morality is simply a guideline for humans to save them from "negative consequences" (whether they are religious or not).. Everyone has to answer for their own choices. If being homosexual is a positive thing that is for the individual to enjoy, if it is a negative thing, it is for the individual to deal with. Is morality concrete? I'll leave that for the individual to decide..

This is an interesting model, and I can see the logic behind it. But, I am an ENFP, therefore I am thinking outside the box at the moment.. lol..

Hmm.. For example, having someone put to death may not only benefit the serial killer, but it may also benefit others, likewise two adults coming together in a union may benefit more then just themselves. Thus, there can also be loss for many other people in this circumstance as well..