Hey. I have the following problem: It seems i just cannot find someone special. I try out everything... it never seems to change - it is either me who doesn't find the girl interesting - or the girl isn't interested in me. I seem to always end up being friends with girls first. Then i get to know them better and am amazed that they really are great people - then i want to date them. On the other hand i don't want to make things awkward because i value them too much as people that i don't want to loose them as friends.

I have heard that girls don't want to date friends, since if you are their friend "they don't think of you like that.".

Well nice that my feelings only develop once i know them closer.

I have noticed that girls seem to forget me when i am their friend - i don't know what to think of that. That is not nice. I don't forget my friends EVER. On the other hand, sometimes they are nice to me when i haven't established the "friend" attitude. I hope this isn't because they are attracted to me - i don't want to turn them down and hurt them because i want to be friends first.

I don't know what to do - it somehow never fits right.

I don't know what i can do - i want to be friends first (that means, i don't flirt with them - ok, i will flirt with them sometimes, but only if it is clear that it is a joke - i hope this doesn't get across as actual flirting)

Do i have to flirt with girls just because there is the chance that someday i will like them better? I don't get it. I don't understand women at all. Can you please give me some insight?

I am not even sure if i am attractive at all. Never has a girl commented that i look great or something like that - besides the ones who have a boyfriend. I always seem to understand well with girls who have a boyfriend... but never with ones without one. I don't know. Are they scared of me? Do they think i am flirting with them? Do they think i am attracted to them and avoid me because they aren't to me? I honestly don't know. Why are the ones that don't have a boyfriend seemingly "hostile" to me, while the others are nice?

Sometimes i see girls and they don't seem to have a heart at all - they just care about material stuff seemingly. I try to befriend them, to see if they DO have a heart at all, but always they really are "bitches" and i loose interest in them. I don't want to be emotionally abused. I always give people second chances. Everyone deserves second chances.

What am i supposed to do?

Even then, i still don't know what girls perceive as "attractive". It never seems to make any difference what i wear, or how much i shower, or what i say, or my posture, or eye contact, or ... well. You know, everything. Guys i have tried EVERY tiny little bit of stuff i have seen in the internet, but it doesn't seem to work on me. No seduction tactic works. No amount of work i put into looking my best works. No amount of improving my life has an effect at all. No amount of building character strength has an impact. Nothing works.

I always get the same reactions. That is why i stopped looking for a relationship at all. If i cannot get a meaningful relationship with a girl i love and that loves me too, then i at least i want to have some fun without developing feelings - i flirt as a joke, just to have some fun. I don't know if girls understand that. I hope they don't think i am creepy or something. I mean, through having some fun i can get to know her and spend time with her. And maybe, just maybe she likes me back. That would be awesome.

I hope, that one day i will find a nice girl who at least cares about herself and her body, and she actually likes me the same way as i do love her. It might be nice if she was smart too. I mean, you can talk to her about scientific subjects or art or stuff and she doesn't look at you like you are a freak.

I don't want them to feel full blown love as i feel it. I want that girls appreciate me and my feelings for them. I fear being used because my feelings are so intense, so as soon as i see i warning sign i become REALLY cautious. Sometimes i just break off contact.

I simply don't know what to think and do anymore about this. Am i weird? Should i just kill all of my emotions? I hope not. What i find infuriating is that everyone seems to say like "guys don't have emotions" "guys cannot understand love since they cannot feel it really" "guys cannot understand feelings.". But i DO have feelings. Is this why i don't have success with girls? Do they want a guy who has a heart of stone? I don't know what to do.

I don't know if it is important how much i earn. I honestly don't care at all how much i earn as long as i am being fulfilled by what i do. I would work for free even - sadly i cannot live this way because then i'll starve.

So please give me some answers. Why am i not finding the right girl? Or why do the girls i AM attracted to always seem to be interested in other guys, not even noticing me at all? Why are there girls without a heart ("bitches")? Why do i get to know girls who have a boyfriend easily but girls who don't have one are "hostile"? Do i need to become a seduction robot without any feelings to become attractive? Do i need to flirt with girls by chance so that if i find out that they are great people they are interested in me and don't forget me? Do i need to flirt with girls whom i want to be my friends so that they won't forget me?
 

I am not even sure if i am attractive at all. Never has a girl commented that i look great or something like that - besides the ones who have a boyfriend.

Guys i have tried EVERY tiny little bit of stuff i have seen in the internet, but it doesn't seem to work on me. No seduction tactic works.

You have to have a base of confidence as a fundamental way of being before applying tactics. Otherwise it doesn't seem congruent.

Stop apologizing for your desires and get in touch with your masculinity. First and foremost. Whatever it takes. Go to the gym, do some extreme sports, etc. You need a chemical base of virility. That will translate into how you behave with women.

Okay thanks. I think it would be best if i first started some sport (i do some workout, but i could do more - it is not really a regular thing) for the ego-boost. Also, it is good for my health and i live longer to enjoy... the world^^ 

Friends first, but move on then until it is too late. Okay understood, that's good. I am not really into all that "one-night-stand" stuff, or asking out at the very first time i meet her. I need some time to... well evaluate. (Hard to describe but i don't like rushing into a relationship or something). That's ok, a good compromise.

 

Know who you are, stick with what makes you happy, you will be
surprised how many women will want to be in your company

 Thank you. Very good, that is very reassuring. A win-win situation really. I like win-wins^^ 

Oh and thanks for the compliments ladies!

Your solution definately made me laugh, in a good way.  But let's not assume you will keep getting rejected.

You seem to have a good rapor with girls who are in relationships. My first piece of advice is to ask them how you come across, especially regarding flirting. If you are making a joke out of the flirting, well then maybe that's offending some of these girls. Flirting is so subjective anyways. What do you mean when you say flirting?? I know I really pull back when someone is delivering generic lines or generally coming on way too strong. I prefer trying to really get to know someone interspersed with some laughter - witty banter, absurd observations, or self - deprecating humor. This really is the mode of communication with all people, so it's not so much flirting ( I've come to realize that some perceive it that way, but it's just my style of communication). The sexual attraction part will make itself obvious through unconscience body language. Or sometimes, more shyness around this person. A pulling back because I'm sure that my attraction would be overwhelmingly obvious, and I'm not yet sure what I want to do about it. It is possible that some of these girls do find you attractive, and you are misreading the signs. And I don't really tell guys how attractive I find them physically. I may tell a girlfriend, "yeah, he is really hot." But not the actual person. Mostly because this is not what will ultimately determine whether I actually like him. There are lots of great looking, boring, self absorbed guys around.

As to the becoming friends first question. Yes, the downside is that you may risk losing them as a friend if you go ahead and pursue something more. But sometimes you just have to take this risk. Most of the girls with boyfriends that you are talking to and connecting with now, will at some point break up. So they are not entirely off the table. But DON'T be the rebound guy, that doesn't usually seem to work. People have to process break-ups before they can really become emotionally available. And even if it doesn't work out, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll lose the friendship. 

As to the gym idea. Being active and in relatively good shape is always a good thing. I don't know. As an ENFP there is something about groups of people on excercise equipment staring at giant TV screens and not really interacting that does not appeal to me. There is the actual gym for basketball etc.. and that I enjoy. But I digress. It's never really meant that much to me that my guy be chiseled. Although I've never dated someone really out of shape. But personality means WAY more to me.

You seem like a nice guy. You will meet someone. The who means more than the when. All girls aren't superficial bitches. Promise.

Working out ( however you do it ) is definately a good thing for your physical and mental health and helps you to feel better about yourself. Agreed. * note to self: start working out again *

As to confidence. Genuine confindence is also a good thing. Sometimes pride is mistaken for confidence though, and it comes off as arrogance. If someone says to me, "I just completely made an ass out of myself." I will be rubbing my hands together with glee.    Because it's bound to be funny, and it shows me they have enough self awareness and real confidence to admit to their flaws.

And the essential rule that applies here -- never listen to what women say, watch what they respond to.

My plan regarding all this is to work out regularly to get a good "chemical base" for confidence. (Already started) I must strengthen my personality and gain confidence. And i am going to make some firm decisions on who i am and then stick with them. And i will stick to what makes me happy. I think this will strengthen my personality a lot.

And the thing with standing in front of the mirror and saying "i am smart" etc. - hehe it is actually a bit funny (I almost laughed the first time ), but yeah it is good and helps since it makes me feel good about myself and feel more attractive.

Ok i did an intensive workout with some small weights for ~20 minutes half an hour ago, and i actually feel a little more confident even now. I like short, intensive workouts more than long, less intensive workouts. 

I can see how that helps. I am going to do that at least every second day from now on and slowly add up the difficulty.

[script removed]

Good job - make sure you do it regularly (every other day is good.)

That's pretty much what I do, a 20 min workout.  3 machines - bicep curls, leg extensions and chest press, 3 sets each, moderate weight.