So.

I'm currently in a relationship with an INTJ.

It's... exhausting. For him too, I'm pretty sure.

The problem is this: he is internally oriented, I am externally oriented. He is very logical, and very controlled: he nearly always presents a smooth surface, and can appear 'calculated' and uncaring. This is a real problem for me, because I need to know he cares, and I judge this by external actions / words etc. For example, tone of voice, effort, degree of passion I observe. I like things to be very intense, so that I know he's interested. A single text from him can make me feel elated, if worded in one way, or send me spiralling down into 'get out, get out, he doesn't care' if worded in another.

I'm having to develop my 'thinking' side to cope with this, so that I don't keep rocking the boat every five minutes. What I really WANT to do when I perceive that he doesn't care is to throw my toys out of the pram and demand that he shows me he cares, and I feel anger and pretty much doubt the relationship as a whole. What I'm LEARNING to do is to leave it, back off, go away and think things through before acting. Which is all very well if I'm away from him and this is all going on via text, but if we're face to face it just builds and builds, until I feel it burning in my chest and I *have* to let it out. I guess that's the External part?!

An example: he's away in another country for the weekend with his friends. We started off texting, and I felt loved, and appreciated. Through the texts, I perceived that he was thinking about me a lot (which is what I want, selfish or not), even when he's with his friends. Last night, he tells me he's found out it costs him 30p to send AND RECEIVE texts while he's abroad, so he was going to have to stop texting.

Now last night, this was the worst thing in the world. PROOF he didn't care about me. PROOF that he'd rather save money and count the pennies than talk to me. PROOF that I was secondary to other things in his life.

I know this is ridiculous. I knew it at the time. But the point is, this single text made me go: Shiiiiiit, he obviously doesn't care enough. Get out, find someone who does, find someone who'd put passion before reason and wouldn't care about the pennies as long as he got to talk to you.

Unfortunately, I texted back. But I tried to rein myself in a little first, and sent back a deliberately vague text that couldn've been construed as a joke. It went something like, 'ohhhh I see, so I'm not worth 30p?!' and then a winkface or whatever. In truth, my blood was boiling! Irrational, I know I know But that's how I felt.

He sent back something like, of course you are, but [re-state the expensiveness]. I read that as 'yes... [but NO]'... and it was the end of the world again.

It's taken the whole day of pondering this and mulling it over, and wondering why he hasn't text again, and how he could possibly not, and why he isn't thinking about me (sigh, exhausting), to come to a conclusion (which was aided greatly by a post from FlammableMuffin about the ENFP personality!)

I concluded this: he is INTJ, I am ENFP, we are very different. Just because he doesn't externalise feeling, doesn't mean he doesn't feel it. Just because he rationalises things doesn't mean he doesn't hold me in high esteem, etc etc. Because I feel in extremes, to me, it's all or nothing. He HAS to show me that I am 'number one' - in every single thing he does - or I get pissy. I realised how unfair this was. I'm never going to give this a chance if I keep going on like this.

I thought about it from his point of view: logically. In another country (not for long), away with friends for a friend's birthday, nice to have some time away, a chance to breathe, also he'd be busy and distracted - *so would I be if the same was true for me* <- breakthrough moment! Secondly, while he might WANT to text me, he probably thinks like this: 'I like talking to her, BUT, I will be home soon and there's a lot going on. Texting anyway and ignoring the cost is foolish, because I will just have a big bill to pay when I get back, which I could save myself the trouble of paying by laying off texting for a couple of days until I get home.' This is fair enough, right? But is it enough? To satisfy a passion hungry ENFP? Is it possible to keep reigning in feeling? I text him back today, after deciding i had vastly overreacted, and after THINKING rather than FEELING the situation through. I'm being my usual self with him. Not pissy, not off - just normal, as if none of this had happened.

He, meanwhile is blissfully unaware that any of this has gone on, and has carried on in his own steady, thinking, logical world. But for me, the tides have turned, and then come back again, in the space of a day. This is exhausting. On the one hand, I struggle to reign in my feeling. If I feel something's unfair or whatever, I WANT to voice it. Have it resolved. Because the only way (up until now) that I could resolve things, would be for HIM to resolve it for me. On the other hand, I like this new sense of control, of maturity, of thinking my way through things. I want to learn more.

So I will keep going, and accepting that we are different, and trying to see things from his point of view. And will try not to be mortally offended by every single thing! Maybe in time it will come naturally, and then I will have a steadier, more comfortable life, as FlammableMuffin described in her thread about learning to 'think' through things. I hope so.

But there's a tiny nagging feeling - should I *have* to do this for a relationship?

If anyone else has any thoughts on this I would love to hear them...

Kaia

Now last night, this was the worst thing in the world. PROOF he didn't care about me. PROOF that he'd rather save money and count the pennies than talk to me. PROOF that I was secondary to other things in his life.

ENFP + INTJ = BANG.

Okay, first you are an ENFP. You aren't any more ruled by emotion than anyone else regardless of MBTI type.

What you are ruled by due to your F is a developed ethics system in comparison to a T who is ruled by his need to critically analyse situations.

You should be asking for an alternative cost effective communication system.

ENFP + INTJ = Impetus for personal and mutual change and development

I think the problem with this change, is that one one is more extrovert-focused, while the other is more introverted-focused, Te versus Fi, the one developing Te (ENFP) feels that more work and effort is put into the relationship because Te is a work-oriented function (a function that the ENFP is growing into). This means that the ENFP feels uncomfortable with the pairing because they feel that more effort is being placed into it (and is potentially not being fully appreciated). Meanwhile, the change in the INTJ is much more internal with Fi, meaning that they are growing and changing but the awkardness and turmoil is internal so the ENFP can't see this, which drives the ENFP crazy if they don't have Te developed enough to realize what might be going on in the INTJ.

InvisibleJim is right. Mr. INTJ has lots of Feelings too. He just overthinks everything and money is normally something INTJs think about because Ni combined with Te indicate how much money pragmatically can be worth. This IN NO WAY means that he cares about you any less. But if you need confirmation of his feelings then ask/tell him because he probably has plenty of feelings in there he could share.
 

Welcome to the forum Kaia

This sounds like a good opportunity for you to challenge yourself and get to know yourself better. Your insecurity stems from you and can't be fixed by your boyfriend. Having him send you more text is like peeing in your pants on a cold day, i.e it'll feel nice & warm for a short while before you need to pee to get the feeling again... If you are depending on external cues or validation this much for you to feel loved, I guess you're very unstable on the inside. No matter how many texts he'll send you, you'll still crave more, wanting to feel more important than anything else he's doing for having 'left you behind' for the weekend. You might be feeling a bottomless black pit inside of you, constantly needing to be filled with external validation. That is asking too much of your partner, it's not fair to ask him to fix that for you. Maybe it's a good idea to talk to someone professional and see if you can develop a stable inner core so you'll feel less influenced by your partner's actions? If you allow him to decide how your day will be, you'll continue to be emotionally exhausted. This doesn't have anything to do with him being an INTJ. You'll experience the same cycle of positive and negative emotions no matter the type you're with.

You need to allow yourself to believe in you and feel self worth regardless of your partner and you need to work on yourself for that. I think INTJs can handle a bit of neediness but not overly much, you need to go the distance with yourself and you'll see that he'll be more accommodating too, when he feels that he has some kind of freedom in the relationship to do 'his' things while knowing you'll be in a good place too, without him.

Posted By Psyko on 11 Apr 2011 11:00 AM

You need to allow yourself to believe in you and feel self worth regardless of your partner and you need to work on yourself for that. I think INTJs can handle a bit of neediness but not overly much, you need to go the distance with yourself and you'll see that he'll be more accommodating too, when he feels that he has some kind of freedom in the relationship to do 'his' things while knowing you'll be in a good place too, without him.

Of course, if you are so okay on your own, why bother with a patner at all?    It's just work.    Most people can support themselves financially.  You can masturbate to get off.   If you have a mate who can't be bothered to give you emotional support, why bother shaving your legs? 

That's what I think, the insecurity probably comes from somewhere. It could very well be unfounded, but for some reason she doesn't feel secure.

I think this insecurity can be very dangerous. I am intensely insecure on jobs. I always think I am about to be fired. I've noticed a pattern:
1) I like this job. I hope they like me.
2) Oh no, I'm not sure they like me, I hope they don't fire me.
3) Oh no, what if they fire me.
4) I think I'm going to get fired.
5) Well, maybe if I get fired it won't be so bad. I never liked this one aspect of the job.
6)  Start thinking about all the things I hate about the job and how other jobs might be much better.
7) I really hate this job.
8) I quit!!

Posted By caprice on 11 Apr 2011 09:04 PM
No one can make another person happy, they can just enhance it or share in it.

I disagree with that.   I've been in a good moood, and then I'll be around a person and they will be cutting or rude or critical and it will completely ruin my good mood.    And conversely, I have been in bad moods and other people lifted me out of them.   For example if I have been stressing or feeling guilty about something, a friend can say, oh that's nothing, I do that all of the time, and I will feel a lot better.

ENFPs should be very wary of how their Ne-Si perception set views the world versus the INTJs Ni-Se perception set.

INTJs define things by consistency of how they act, everything is a function of what it does. If you only speak to an INTJ once in a year to tell him you love him he will still love you in return because the action is the same regardless of the timeframe and the heart repeats the same beat. We don't understand why these things are an issue for others who view the world differently because we only really see things our way (we are only human after all).

You should note it is the method by which we tend to feel our way around the world.  Inconsistency is a major problem for us to deal with; tell us two opposing things or act in a different way from what is said is the action and we will get very annoyed very quickly.

My advice is to raise the issue but also to offer real tangible half way solutions as well.

Thanks InvisibleJim. That's good information.

Annak, I think you miss the point. Of course we all prefer certain company or types of interactions, but it's really your job to know how to make yourself happy and do the lion's share of the work. You can hardly expect someone else who doesn't live inside your head to do a better job of it. For instance, if someone leaves town for a couple of days and is bothered by the high cost of texting, you can just take it at face value and find things to do that you enjoy while they're gone.

If you act like a marionette and insist that others constantly pull the right strings, you're going to be miserable, and so will they.  But if you're fairly self-sufficient, you can focus on whose company you enjoy, not "need." 

But there's a tiny nagging feeling - should I *have* to do this for a relationship?

Thanks all for the advice. All very helpful :3

Balance is key, as we know. Now I'm working more on my thinking / judgement side and he's working more on developing his 'feeling' side.

Communication is key, too ;D