Posted By AnnaK on 12 Apr 2011 03:14 AM

Posted By caprice on 11 Apr 2011 09:04 PM
No one can make another person happy, they can just enhance it or share in it.

I disagree with that.   I've been in a good moood, and then I'll be around a person and they will be cutting or rude or critical and it will completely ruin my good mood.    And conversely, I have been in bad moods and other people lifted me out of them.   For example if I have been stressing or feeling guilty about something, a friend can say, oh that's nothing, I do that all of the time, and I will feel a lot better.

I agree. The self help industry hype that happiness is entirely internal is mumbo jumbo. I'm reading a book called "Social Intelligence". same guy that wrote "Emotional Intelligence". It talks about how the amygdala and other parts of the brain drive and are affected by social interaction.  Our brains are hardwired to respond, empathize, or be hurt by our social interactions with others.   there's scientific data to support this.

People can destroy our happiness. But we have to choose to control our environment as much as possible. You gotta get away from the negativity.

Posted By drdilemma on 19 Apr 2011 02:21 PM

ENFP + INTJ = mostly passionless longevity

I've been married to an INTJ for 18 years, our first 8 was pure torture. We both brought a lot of baggage though.

Observations;

I wish we had real passion, but my wife is faithful to us
She wishes I was more secure, but I am fun and exciting

There are many gives and takes in our relationship, the two above are just a couple glaring examples.

Has it been worth it? If I had another life to live with someone who expressed emotion I could compare and gauge whether I chose the right path or not.

If you want passion you probably will not get that from an INTJ, not real passion anyway and they do not fake passion very well (it's very awkward to be a part of). If you want someone faithful who loathes social games and understands betrayal in a very deep and meaningful way, an INTJ might be a good fit.

They don't like to admit when they have fun which can be challenging for an ENFP as we live for excitement and fun.

Advise- they don't like surprises or excitement, so when you really want to go out and do something (like visiting amusement parks, or skydiving) hint the desire to them in advance without asking for a yes or no, then remind them right before as if they had said yes (this was how I was able to take the kids to Disney World, that and I drove around long enough for her to pass out- by the time she woke up I had purchased Disney tickets and we were parking at the Disney resort).

 

I am INTP/ENTP and we love excitement.  Forget the stinkin Js, always muddling up things, outshining us

^^ How is it possible to muddle and outshine at the same time?   

Kaia, I'm sorry to hear things ended.  That sucks.  Take some time, try some things you have wanted to try but never have, and just enjoy life.  You will find someone who is just as invested in you as you are of him.  Plus, don't worry about trying to rush your healing.  It will come with time.

But as for moving on, I'm finding it hard. All I can think about sometimes is how much I miss him. How I want to be there to share in his life, and have him in mine. But as the days go by it's easier to deal with this by thinking about the logical argument for ending the relationship... I guess haven't cried about it for a while. That's a step forward.

What's getting me now is that damn ENFP "what if...?" What if things could work out? What if things could be different now? What I'd pay to have that voice in my head switched off... Especially as he's obviously moved on, as INTJs see fit to.

Anyone relate?

Hi Kaia,

I totally relate! I've just broken up with my INTJ as well over commitment, basically I wanted to commit (nothing major like engaged or anything, just wanted to be the one) and he couldn't commit as it's a bit of a long distance.  So I made the decision to walk away as well, and it sucks.  I miss him so much, I want to share his life.  I'm also doing the 'what if...' game, what if I'd agreed to the lack of commitment and kept things as they are, what if I hadn't said anything, what if I'd tried harder??

It's awful, I am going to find it really hard to trust anyone again, after it took him 18 months to let me let him in, now I feel even more betrayed!!

 

Posted By Stripes on 13 Nov 2011 09:59 AM
Please clarify this for me muddy. This INTJ let you in, then you left him due to circumstances and now YOU feel betrayed?

Hi Stripes,

Hmm ok that was an abbreviated version of our history, so here's the real story:

We met and instantly there was something, but we spent a few months getting to know each other to decide, I had just come out of a long term relationship and was healing, and he was still investigating me I guess.  After a few times of us ending up kissing then me backing away, he wrote down his feelings for me.  It was hard reading, but it kinda opened things up for us, and a short while later we discussed it openly (we've always been honest) and decided to give it a go, knowing that eventually for work one of us would move away. We were determined to enjoy it whilst it lasted.  We kept it as a 'secret' relationship from our mutual friends, as we're both really intensely private, partly due to my previous awful experiences.  A few months later I got a job and moved away, but we carried on seeing each other, he would come visit and we chatted every day through skype and texts.  I just loved spending time with him, would send him things to let him know I was thinking of him, like small happy surprises.  However, I was starting to feel he wasnt as close to me as before, and it was getting difficult as friends didn't know, and I was at the stage where I didn't care if people knowed, I LOVE HIM and want people to know!!  So I braved up and wrote down how I felt and then when we next met up face to face I told him how I felt about him and asked him how he felt about me.  Basically he didn't want the commitment mainly due to distance....I feel totally heart broken....we've talked about it honestly, and I let him read what I had written.  We talked openly, he doesn't want to feel 'tied' and wants to be free to meet new people...we could have carried this on but I felt I had to tell him how I felt, which he said he already knew.  Is there anything I could have done differently?

Kind of sounds to me like the relationship was casual and not established.....she wanted put some boundaries around it and call it a proper commitment, he was unwilling to call a horse a horse for whatever reason, and she did not want to keep living in an uncertain place. For an ENFP, people are defined by the roles they hold in regard to us.... Having had a secret boyfriend once, I can understand that frustration completely - it's a big reassurance just to know that a loved one will fully acknowledge you. However, since it was long distance, the INTJ turned her down when the ultimatum was set....so she left. I'm sure the INTJ feels a bit betrayed too (and probably will use it as further rationalization that trust should not be so easily given).

muddy....I completely understand, really I do....but relationships are about compromise. Ultimatums that have the potential to just end the relationship outright are not usually a good idea except in circumstances where the behavior is already irreparably damaging the relationship (ie: complete lack of communication, trust, or honesty). I think there might have been better ways to have handled this....baby steps, if you will. His concern was the distance....was there anything you could have done to reduce that? If things reached a point where they got serious enough for marriage, one or both of you would have to uproot anyway... ><

Edit: Ack, you posted while I was typing. 

That's just my first impression. For all I know, this INTJ could have other motives for wanting to be "free." Basically, I think it would have been *possible* for you to have eventually worked something out with him....but that's just it, it would have been a lot of effort with no guarantees. It's a matter of balancing the importance of the person against the risks....if he's worth devoting years of your life that may well end in not coming to anything....that's up to you. If you'd rather give yourself the chance to find someone who is willing to commit fully, that's also up to you. I don't think you did anything wrong....it's just one of several options that aren't necessarily wrong.

Thanks for your feedback The distance isn't a problem for me, I would be happy to drive however long to see him or just spend a couple of hours with him.  It wasn't an ultimatum, it was a 'this is what I feel for you, what do you feel for me' and we talked about it openly.  I would move heaven and earth to be with him if he wanted to be with me....I would get my next job near him as well if he wanted...but no point doing that if he doesn't want to be with me. 

No he's nearly a year older....but I am/was his first relationship.  He is now initiating all contact, even just small talk which is NOT like him at all.

Thanks Alysaria you might be right, he is definitely thinking it over, he can take as much time and space as he needs, but yeah if it's permanent then it is and I can't change it. He is moving cities soon (actually a bit closer to me by coincidence) so perhaps he'll get a different perspective.

No he's nearly a year older....but I am/was his first relationship. He is now initiating all contact, even just small talk which is NOT like him at all.

Something tells me that yes he's thinking a lot about this.

Give him some time to think about the situation and then go talk to him about it if you want or wait to see if he brings it up. He might just change his story on this one and want the label (if you still wanted it.) Either way, you probably should talk about it, I say.

I hope he is thinking about it....and I was aware that he may well do that, it's what he has done in the past when we've chatted and he usually mulls things over.  I am letting him have the time and space, and letting him decide if/when he wants contact.  I don't know if he's being 'chatty' because he wants to keep the friendship, or if he is perhaps rethinking things.  He admitted himself he would have carried on as we were....but I am open to talking about it if he wants to. If there is ANY way we can make it work, I am listening.  I don't know if he does want anything, and perhaps I am reading too much into his 'small talk', but he HATES small talk and particularly about his work and now he is very talkative! He is even sending me information about places where he is thinking to live - why does he want to share everything now?!

 

Because he really cares for you and is scared of losing you from his life. So, his silly Fi is going into overdrive, trying to find ways to appease/please you. You were the one to technically call it off, no?

Believe me, if he didn't want you as just a friend, he wouldn't initiate all contact - we are generally far too stubborn to do stuff like that. This is an internal battle. He had the situation laid out in his head and then your requiring more threw a kink into it, so he's trying to reconcile how he feels with what what he logically thinks could work because he thought things were "working" before with all the distance barrier being present (and other potentially issues we might not be aware of.) Telling you where he is thinking about living? That's a pretty big sign he is trying to keep you around and not in a "I just want to be friends way." We're not so oblivious as to realize that if friendship were all that could work, then we shouldn't give you space. He probably, like you, realizes that he is moving closer soon, so he could potentially see you more and maybe be more official and workable.

But that's just how I would read the actions you've shown. From what I see, he really cares, doesn't want to lose you, so he's trying to figure out how to keep you around, but I could be wrong.

Thanks PurpleGiraffe, your insight is really useful and helpful.  I am doing my best not to be a typical ENFP and read into everything he does, but yeah I suspect he's sorting it out still in his head.  Yes I broke it off, but not noticeably, he was of the mindset nothing changes other than we are not official....he claims he just wants independence and to be alone....I think it's just a waiting game in a way.  I wish you INTJ's would just give an indication that you are thinking about it!! I am doing my best to not 'close off' my feelings, very hard at the moment.  I am supressing my natural urges to share little things with him that I know would make him smile, must resist!!!