sbalbom 
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| 12 Aug 2009 12:53 AM |
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So I was showing my INTJ girlfriend shoes that i loved on Sak's website:
http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductArray.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374306420992&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474399545537&bmUID=1250059332871&use_parent=1&SECSLOT=LN-Shoes
I love the 500 dollar Gucci and Prada loafers. Yea Yea I can't afford them now but god they are beautiful...
So she looks at them and looks at me like i'm crazy and says "those look like girl shoes." Then points up to the top of the page and said I should get the more "masculine" ones. Basically the ones that look like Target Brand.
Since it is very hard to argue aesthetics I just decided not to. So here is my question
1. Real strong INTx girls, do they pick up on style? Can they be taught? I'm not saying style like an esfj or esfp, more an appreciation for aesthetics. Should I try to logically convince her that the clothes worn send signals etc? Will she pick up on stuff from my via osmosis?
I'm trying to make this a positive in my head, like I stand out more because she dresses like everyone else, utility or bear minimum for girls.
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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thoke
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| 12 Aug 2009 06:26 AM |
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I'm not a girl, and I'm not hugely stylish, but I have definitely learned to appreciate aesthetics, including when to comes to clothes. If my clothes don't look good, it isn't for want of trying. I don't try to stand out or look incredibly flamboyant, but I do try to make sure the colours match etc.
I think the fashion world is quite peculiar. The aim of fashion designers often appears not to be to make clothes look good on people, which is unfortunate. So if she's anything like me, I'm sure your INTJ friend is capable of appreciating aesthetics and admiring clothes which look good. But don't confuse that with appreciating those bizarre items that get paraded down catwalks. |
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sbalbom
MBTI: ENFP
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| 12 Aug 2009 06:48 AM |
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The aim of fashion designers often appears not to be to make clothes look good on people, which is unfortunate. So if she's anything like me, I'm sure your INTJ friend is capable of appreciating aesthetics and admiring clothes which look good. Ok that is fair |
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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Amir
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| 12 Aug 2009 11:18 AM |
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I gotta go with the Salvatore Farregamo leather drivers. I've had my eye on those beauties for a while now, but somehow, I've managed to find other ways to spend $500. They are fantastic and I would wear them with old, torn jeans.
Anyways, as for the GF, I'd say forget about whether she's capable of appreciating your sense of style. You do what makes your heart blast open the most and then give her the gift of your joy. That is much more valuable to the feminine heart than what goes on your feet. And if she's more concerned about how feminine your shoes "look" than what makes you happy, consider giving her the boot - a nice Texas sized boot from Western Warehouse over on Beltline Rd. (Oh man, I kinda miss Dallas for the first time ever) |
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aprilla
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| 12 Aug 2009 12:34 PM |
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LOL, Amir, I always knew that finger of yours were looking mighty good.
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sbalbom
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| 12 Aug 2009 12:46 PM |
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^^
Yea Farregamos....
point taken Amir.
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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cryptonia
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| 12 Aug 2009 02:52 PM |
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I'd say "be careful, if you try to argue it logically"--especially with an INTJ who has Fi in there, somewhere. If her ideals are such that she doesn't think clothes should send signals about a character, you'll be locked in a logical argument with an INTJ who now refuses to validate irrationality. Good luck winning that one. |
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oregonaggie
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| 12 Aug 2009 07:21 PM |
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I don't think it is a matter of her being able to "pick up" on style, she probably just doesn't really care. Clothes to her doesn't measure value, intelligence or anything else, except maybe materialism. Now I do think fit matters and staying somewhat in fashion is important, no need to stick out like a sore thumb, but she may need a little help in that category. But I'm pretty sure she can be taught, it just probably won't be on the top of her priority list  . |
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| "You will be moved" - INTJ |
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sbalbom
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| 12 Aug 2009 10:40 PM |
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Posted By oregonaggie on 12 Aug 2009 06:21 PM
I don't think it is a matter of her being able to "pick up" on style, she probably just doesn't really care. Clothes to her doesn't measure value, intelligence or anything else, except maybe materialism. Now I do think fit matters and staying somewhat in fashion is important, no need to stick out like a sore thumb, but she may need a little help in that category. But I'm pretty sure she can be taught, it just probably won't be on the top of her priority list .
I can be taught how not to lose my keys, anything is possible. |
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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Amir
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| 12 Aug 2009 11:43 PM |
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Posted By sbalbom on 12 Aug 2009 09:40 PM
Posted By oregonaggie on 12 Aug 2009 06:21 PM
I don't think it is a matter of her being able to "pick up" on style, she probably just doesn't really care. Clothes to her doesn't measure value, intelligence or anything else, except maybe materialism. Now I do think fit matters and staying somewhat in fashion is important, no need to stick out like a sore thumb, but she may need a little help in that category. But I'm pretty sure she can be taught, it just probably won't be on the top of her priority list .
I can be taught how not to lose my keys, anything is possible.
Yea, easy. Just clasp them onto your nipple rings. |
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Amir
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| 12 Aug 2009 11:48 PM |
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Posted By oregonaggie on 12 Aug 2009 06:21 PM
I don't think it is a matter of her being able to "pick up" on style, she probably just doesn't really care. Clothes to her doesn't measure value, intelligence or anything else, except maybe materialism. Now I do think fit matters and staying somewhat in fashion is important, no need to stick out like a sore thumb, but she may need a little help in that category. But I'm pretty sure she can be taught, it just probably won't be on the top of her priority list .
I'm sure you have a very good point, but I can't understand anything you say. I've tried re-reading your post 3 times now, but every time I do, all I can see is your damn avatar. I'm keep looking for the person behind the avatar, but it's really hard to see past the glistening body oil and suggestively pulled aside panties. What a blessing! |
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JHBowden
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| 13 Aug 2009 10:59 PM |
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"Real strong INTx girls, do they pick up on style?"
No.
"Can they be taught?"
Yes.
"Should I try to logically convince her that the clothes worn send signals etc?"
Absolutely not. Use a few doses of friendly flattery instead. Or, with your own stuff, show pride and confidence in it. "You *totally* know I'd be styln' with this new gear!" Even if your taste is weird, you'll still seem like a trend setter.
"Will she pick up on stuff from me via osmosis?"
Nope! |
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sbalbom
MBTI: ENFP
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| 13 Aug 2009 11:32 PM |
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lol on everyone |
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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Psyko
MBTI: INTJ
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| 13 Sep 2009 05:34 PM |
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You can try this with your girlfriend: Appeal to her sense of quality. We LOVE good quality things and you can tell her that the Target stuff is of lesser quality and will be more expensive in the long run, because it needs to be replaced sooner. Another tip: you can gently nudge us in direction where you want us, but when you push, our breaks are slammed on!! I'm an INTJ female who is very interested in aesthetics and good quality design, but I have INTJ friends who could care less, and I don't think they'll ever change. |
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sbalbom
MBTI: ENFP
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| 13 Sep 2009 06:33 PM |
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^^ Welcome Psyko. Good advice.
How did you hear about us? |
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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Psyko
MBTI: INTJ
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sbalbom
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| 14 Sep 2009 06:30 PM |
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Yea, I found logic and reason goes a long way with NTs. First thing I say is: I just want you to process this data and don't need a complete answer from you now.... This way I'm not infringing on their competence. |
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"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star..."
"....And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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Psyko
MBTI: INTJ
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| 15 Sep 2009 12:35 PM |
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Smart! Yes, logic & reason will get you all the way with us  |
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Esquilax
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| 02 Oct 2009 10:42 PM |
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Just my observations and experiences "So I was showing my INTJ girlfriend shoes that i loved on Sak's website" I LOL'd. I know *exactly* where this post is going.... But this is one of the things I love about ENFP boys. You're feminine in a masculine sort-of-way. It's so foreign, intriguing and delicious "Can we be taught style?" To echo JHBowden's and Psyko's point, no, not directly. We know when someone's trying to get us to do something, and as soon as I detect that, I take what you want me to do and do the complete opposite. Like cryptonia said, I think clothes are just clothes and wish everyone else thought the same way. Whatever. I hate shopping. But I also recognise the effect that our outward appearance has on how we are treated. It helps us form social categories. It contributes to "us" versus "them" mindsets. They give rise to stereotypes and biases, fairly or unfairly. "Do we pick-up on style?" Yes, absolutely. It's easy to spot someone stylish from someone who looks like they got dressed in the dark or tripped and fell into the laundry hamper and decided "that'll do". INTJs are pattern extractors. We can't help but observe and fit what we observe into a theoretical framework or concept. Yes, even fashion. I know which outfits work and which don't. I know why in both cases. I just choose not to care much. To be honest, I changed what I wear to be more "socially conforming", for want of a better phrase. People seem more open to the girl in the pretty designer dress and heels than the chic in army pants and boots. Has its upsides, for sure. How am I supposed to take over the world if I can't recruit more minions? Downside, fairly or unfairly, I tend to be pigeonholed as more of an SF type. I then miss my "nerdy scientist" get-up, because it sends signals to other "nerdy scientist" types that we are kindred spirits and can have deep, meaningful and satisfying chats about weird, esoteric things. I'm frequently caught between "she dresses like one of us, but eww she's really strange and talks about weird things" and "she talks like one of us, but ewww she dresses like the barbie dolls" and it's hard to fit-in anywhere. Except with ENFPs who I'm guessing are like, "stylish + brain?" ka-ching! So my default is boring pedestrian clothing. If I'm heading out, trying to impress someone or trying to get in someone's pants, I dress-up :p |
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coralaisly
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| 03 Nov 2009 08:50 PM |
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I can't say I'm particularly fond of those shoes either. Doesn't mean that they can't look amazing on the right guy in the right situation. I have a sense of style, but that doesn't mean that I like current fashion, be it cut, trends, specific aesthetics of things, or what have you. I love 40's and 50's fashion, have a not so secret desire to try dancing burlesque, and dress accordingly. I love the lines and proportions of the clothing and how they flatter the body, it was a natural progression to get interested in everything from that era (there's my overactive sense of logic flaring up ). It seems as though the question is not "will she ever have a sense of style?" but "will she ever agree with my sense of style?" and the answer lies in how you present it. If you approach it as trying to teach her, you run the risk of her taking it as an insult and purposefully avoiding giving the answer you want. Instead of "do you like these shoes?" ask "how do you think these shoes would look with that shirt I bought last week?" Remember INTJ = specific and literal. You may want to show her what it is you like about the clothes you like, for instance, the lines, the proportion, the textures, the colors, etc. Give her something tangeable instead of "I dunno, they're nice, and they're Gucci" |
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