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some questions for you INTJ's
Last Post 19 May 2012 01:54 AM by J Squirrel. 70 Replies.
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Moxie 
MBTI: ENFP
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| 08 Jan 2012 02:49 AM |
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So I'm brand new to this forum (thanks for all the welcomes btw) and have been looking around to see what sort of info i could glean from it about ENFP's (because let's just admit it, we're awesome right?) and to get advice about how to interact with INTJ's.
I note (that NF/NT pattern observation thing) that there seem to be a LOT of INTJ's on this forum.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see you all on here because I just have a lot of questions about all of this, and in particular all you NT types. For instance:
1) Why? I've never met an intj who didn't know exactly why they did a certain action - so why are you guys here?
2) what exactly are you guys "intuitive" about? do you intuit other's emotions like we (enfp) do?
3) how emotionally aware are you really? i suspect that it's more than you let on - all the intj's i know are secret sentimentalists.
4) would you agree that interfacing with an enfp attracts you because we are like a sort of puzzle to you?
5) is it true that if an intj let's you get close that you need not talk too much about it, because "geez, i let you in that should be proof enough that i enjoy you"
i guess that's a small start. i have a gazillion questions still but will stop there. |
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Chess
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| 08 Jan 2012 03:19 AM |
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Greetings Moxie,
Just interact with INTJs like how you interact with everybody. Chill, don't get nervous and SMILE. 
1) I was searching a Psychology forum or an MBTI forum, somewhere in between. I've decided that it was not a bad forum after all, so I decided to stay.
2) We are intuitive not only emotionally, but in every other way. I use 90% intuition and the rest will be based on a concrete basis whenever I take an exam at school. But I still pass my exams nevertheless. I also use them to see future possibilities so that I can plan and execute things.
3) I won't tell you.
4) No
5) You don't need to talk about it. Attachment to other people is not a thing you say, it's something you do. |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 09 Jan 2012 07:57 PM |
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I'll do my best to answer your questions, but I'm fairly new to the MBTI. Also, I don't know too much about ENFPs so I don't know how much I can help you. It's best to think of my answers as a case study from one such INTJ.
1) I've been reading that ENFPs and INTJs get along pretty well. Out of the people I know personally who know their type none are ENFP. I'm just genuinely curious about ENFPs, so I'm here to learn more about them. Maybe I'll become a better person by trying to understand them.
2) I'd say the future and nature. Emotions, maybe a little bit. I can usually tell when people are stressed out or how they'll react to certain words. I typically use this information to get what I want, or avoid burning bridges. I don't want to say that I don't care about other people's feelings, but they are usually near the bottom on my list of importance. I act like I care through routine, forced small-talk maneuvers I've developed over the years, but most people realize I'm acting so sometimes I wonder why I even try.
3) I don't really know -- sorry. I'm not a robot though.
4) I don't know enough about ENFPs to answer this question.
5) I don't have enough experience to answer this.
That's 2 for 5. I guess I get an E for effort.
Let's see, how to interact with an INTJ... Good luck! Seriously though, one way to really get my attention is to demonstrate above average intelligence in something or otherwise go beyond typical small talk. I personally hold a lot of respect for that. Being honest and direct in your intentions helps. Any weirdness, flirtations, or unusual behaviors won't necessarily be frowned upon, but potentially analyzed to death. Most of my friends are extroverted by necessity, because I almost never initiate anything. So it takes a lot of effort and work to interact with me which I'm trying to change about myself. |
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PurpleGiraffe
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
Relationship: Jirafa sola
IM:
Philosopher of ENFPs
Posts:962
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| 10 Jan 2012 12:09 AM |
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It takes awesome to spot awesome, so, yes, ENFPs can be pretty awesome. 1.) Personal reasons. Research and self improvement really. One of my exes is an ENFP, so after a break-up, I joined here to figure out some things about myself and what contribution I made to the demise of the relationship. Ultimately I have learned a lot and there are some cool people who frequent this place, so I occasionally make an appearance. 2.) I intuit based on logical patterns of systems. I don't naturally intuit from feelings, but from what makes sense (and to a greater extent what doesn't make sense) given the data provided and experience. For example, I haven't always and still aren't adept at reading feelings, but introverted intuition often helps connect the dots, if you will and be able to infer how someone got from one place to the other. 3.) It depends on the person, really. If you had asked me this several years ago, I might have said I understood myself pretty well, but experience has proven me wrong. 4.) Yes, originally and I would argue that the inverse is likely true. No? 5.) I think this is more prominent in younger INTJs. Ni tends to teach us that we have to express more about ourselves for the sake of adhering to potential partner needs, but we still won't express our feelings like we are gushy ESFPs or something. Nevertheless, slowly we might peek out of our turtle shells and start our races (I.e., talk some more.) |
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: 3x/F
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| 10 Jan 2012 03:48 AM |
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you see??!! THAT is why i think INTJ's are the tops. you guys actually answer our questions (which are endless) and do so authentically and actually give it some thought. I think most ENFP's respect someone who stops to think about their answers.
PurpleGiraffe - yes the inverse is absolutely true. the mind of the INTJ is infinitely fascinating to me.
it's precisely because you don't express like gushy ESFP's that I find myself interested in intj's - mining for data is extremely interesting...be it actual data (something you intj's tend to like about us) or emotional data. ugh. gushy esfp types make me really uncomfortable. i prefer to keep my gushy more cerebral than emotional (sometimes i wonder if i'm a secret intj...lol)
@DelphineanEtude -" I don't want to say that I don't care about other people's feelings, but they are usually near the bottom on my list of importance. I act like I care through routine, forced small-talk maneuvers I've developed over the years" I'm curious about this statement - doesn't this make you lonely sometimes? why are the feelings of others near the bottom? does this hold true in your relationships as well? |
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Chess
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| 10 Jan 2012 06:45 AM |
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you see??!! THAT is why i think INTJ's are the tops. you guys actually answer our questions (which are endless) and do so authentically and actually give it some thought. I think most ENFP's respect someone who stops to think about their answers.
Sumire and K from Haruki Murakami's Sputnik Sweetheart suddenly pop from my head. @.@
And lol, it's very amusing for me to see that people look unto us like we're a bunch of Mojojojos from Powerpuff Girls.
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In addition to your inquiry regarding how you should talk to an INTJs. You can, ask questions or anything under the sun because I actually feel that it's very entertaining that someone will ask me a question then I'll spend some time pondering over it.
Don't ask questions though, in a machine-gun manner. Because some will not just regard this as something annoying but also stupid at the same time. Ask something intellectually entertaining, like a detective story and such. If the topic is turning to something that you cannot relate to (like, Quantum Physics, example) then quickly change the topic without interrupting an INTJ. Be humorous, whatever the MBTI a person will have, being funny doesn't hurt and it actually cracks the ice. After all, we don't eat people.
Anyway, that's just my $0.002 |
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Stripes
MBTI: intj
Age/Sex: M
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Posts:404
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| 10 Jan 2012 12:01 PM |
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You are a crafty one Moxie. Getting some INTJs to spill it out like that. I will be keeping an eye on you . |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 10 Jan 2012 05:46 PM |
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Well, I'll admit it doesn't make me very many friends. But it also puts me in a comfortable neutral zone where I can essentially avoid drama and have zero responsibility to help other people -- thus giving me more time to concentrate on other things I enjoy. I only care about others' feelings when they effect me in some way, and I've found that most of the time they have no effect on me. Two examples:
Jack splits up with his girlfriend and he's sad. It's probably going to lower his effectiveness at work. I am his coworker, and not his manager. I (try to) listen to Jack's story, but offer him no advice or consoling. It will not effect me. I don't care.
Betsy loses a loved one she was very close to in a car accident. I am her manager. I realize she's in grief and won't function effectively at work. Being her manager I (try my best to) offer some consoling words, and offer her as much time off as I can to help her get over it. Her level of production and potential low morale around her coworkers effects me, so I care.
Jack's situation is a pretty typical for me while Betsy's is not since I typically avoid situations where the quality of my business is dependent on others. That pretty much sums up why the feelings of others are near the bottom for me. If my future is negatively effected by my indifference towards someone's feelings, then I'll try to effect positive change in their feelings. I used to work as a preschool language teacher so I've had a lot of practice acting like I care and I'm so bad at it that the children could see right through me. But, politics is politics. Loneliness is a relative term, but I have enough friends where I don't really need to go out of my way to make new ones. I tend to get bored fairly quickly in most social interactions, even with my friends. So, many times, it gets to the point where I welcome loneliness. That's not to say I'm not open to making more friends. Just that it's really hard to find people that I feel would challenge me, be useful to me, or offer me something I need. Those are pretty much my primary factors in a friendship and if they are friends then their feelings will mean a little bit more to me. I'd say that the closer I am to someone, the more I will care about their feelings. In all honesty I could probably afford to be a nicer person, but I've seen so many nice people get stomped on in my life that I think it's easier just to be niether mean nor nice. |
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: 3x/F
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Posts:35
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| 11 Jan 2012 02:00 AM |
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Delph - interesting response.....do you think this is typical for many intj's? how much of that is your particular personality and life experiences as opposed to the typology?
does this change at all in a romantic relationship? you indicate that the closer you get the more you will care about their feelings, but then in the next breath say that it's easier to remain neutral
Stripes - LOL. mind like steel trap |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 11 Jan 2012 11:56 PM |
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These are some pretty tough questions. I've never tried to explain emotions before in words. It's a lot more complex in theory than in practice.
I don't know enough INTJs personally to be comfortable saying it's typical for them. Going off of what I've read about INTJ personailty type in Gifts Differing and Please Understand Me II, I'd say the fundamental reasons behind me personally placing the emotions as a low priority item on a list of importance are there for many INTJs -- it's just not a main thing for us.
But in the end, does it really matter? I'm not sensitive to Betsy's plight, but I do what I can to make her feel better for my own needs. Betsy doesn't have to know that I did it to keep her morale and productivity high. She can be comfortable thinking that she's working in a company that genuinely cares for her and I can be comfortable knowing that on my next review of me she'll probably put in good words for me as a manager. Thus potentially furthering my own ambitions.
It's more of a fog than a clear line between life experiences and typology, but I'd say that my own extremely low level of empathy and sensitivity to emotion are environmental factors based on my own experiences. Other tests I've taken (not that I have great trust for such tests) have rated me in the lower 10% of all the test takers in empathy categories. My whole thing is that I don't want to be in a position where I have to be sensitive to other people. Staying in that neutral zone is paramount to this. I'll build bridges strictly through demonstrating and refining my own personal value to the people around me.
I've never been in a romantic relationship before so this is imagination territory here. I have absolutely no idea how I would change in a romantic relationship. My partner would just see a side of me that nobody else has seen before -- a side I'd probably have to grow comfortable with during the relationship. I mean, I'd value the relationship a lot so I'd do what I could to protect it as long as I see the value in it. I just don't know how far I would go, how far I'd leave my comfort zone, or when I would just call it quits. I probably wouldn't change at the beginning of the relationship, but I bet I would change a lot during the relationship. I've read a lot of problems that people have with INTJs in relationships, and I could easily see myself causing the same problems for other people. In fact, after reading about so many others' problems, I can understand how and why I may have inadvertantly hurt some feelings in ordinary relationships in the past now. I could definitely see my personality type causing some problems in any serious romantic relationship.
I don't have too many friends, but I think the ones I have are great people. I simply don't want to spend that much time with too many other people who don't matter to me. It is definitely easier to stay neutral, but like most things that are easy to do it becomes boring after awhile. I just want to make sure that when I leave that neutral zone, I'll stand to benefit from it one way or another.
Again, I'm just a case. We're a diverse bunch at varying levels of maturity in certain aspects. |
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incrediblemind
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 46
Relationship: stuck with a sensor :(
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Posts:216
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| 12 Jan 2012 02:13 AM |
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1.) I have just googled my MBTI and my ideal match and discovered you-know-what. 2.) We're Introverted Intuiters, which means we see arcane patterns in behind real-world problems, and can very very quickly predict some outcome on the basis of not more than a hunch, and take immediate action, sometimes in seconds, AND it doesn't scare us. Give us two or three hours and we can then offer you an exceedingly detailed description of all the ideas, what initiated them, what fits where, who does what, and why this is the best way to do it. Seriously though, you are far better off to just trust us. We know what we're doing, and mostly it's a long story to explain it all, except to an ENFP, who will be probably utterly enthralled by the spectacular nature of it, which of course INTJs find quite cool. 3.) Yes, we're secret sentimentalists.. well, I am anyway, but I'll cook your evening meal and hope that you like it. It was a bit of a re-think to accept others have feelings about things, and that I am not the center of the universe. Oh well.  4.) Interfacing with an ENFP appeals to me mainly because you look up to us with big incredulous eyes, and you ASK QUESTIONS!! Incredible! You also share our enthusiasm! Awesome! add to that, ENFP's are just lovely creatures anyway. 5.) I guess it might be a bit odd talking about "why I let you get close." Why not just accept that INTJs really LIKE you? Because they do. Because you're neat. No rocket science. |
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shotkot
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 25/F
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| 12 Jan 2012 10:20 PM |
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1) Why? I've never met an intj who didn't know exactly why they did a certain action - so why are you guys here?
I've had a very close friendship between an ENFP and it got very sour. I came here to re-evaluate ENFPs in general.
2) what exactly are you guys "intuitive" about? do you intuit other's emotions like we (enfp) do?
I personally am very intuitive about situations and how they pan out. I'm less intuitive with emotions.
3) how emotionally aware are you really? i suspect that it's more than you let on - all the intj's i know are secret sentimentalists.
I'm not really sure. I have difficultly picking up emotional cues form others. But I have a good sense of my own emotions and general emotional needs.
4) would you agree that interfacing with an enfp attracts you because we are like a sort of puzzle to you?
I don't think ENFPs are puzzling (chaotic - yes, puzzling - no) but I do like their open-mindedness and undying curiosity in things; it makes for good conversation.
5) is it true that if an intj let's you get close that you need not talk too much about it, because "geez, i let you in that should be proof enough that i enjoy you"
*shrug* |
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
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Posts:35
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| 13 Jan 2012 01:22 AM |
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thanks intj compatriots! very helpful information from all of you....
incrediblemind - absolutely amazing answers. 3) the intj can quickly become the center of the enfp universe...for a while anyways. but like you guys, one trait we all share in common is a really entrenched need for independence. some of the other types simply don't get that and seem to be threatened by it...except intj's, in my experience anyways. and I KNEW IT!! i knew you guys were sentimental! lol. 2) precisely, i know i would find that long story genuinely fascinating - anything that gives us insight to how you tick. and also, yes, i've learned over time to just simply trust the intj's take on things of a worldly nature. what i've also found is that us enfp's can fill in those human motivator blanks that you all have a rough time with and that you all need to learn to just trust that we are truly able to see the arcane patterns behind human motivation and feelings and that we have a fairly uncanny ability to predict and feel human behavior, which pairs quite well with your system building. a good system knows how to best utilize and motivate its drivers. it's all about efficacy right?
DELPH - thanks! super interesting.to answer your question about Betty - yes it does really matter. esp if betty was an enfp, because she'd be able to feel it and then uncomfortably question you about it. LOL
this is a quote that i think intj's could learn a bit from:
"If you're feeling frightened about what comes next..DON'T. Embrace the uncertainty. Allow it to lead you places. Be brave as it challenges you to exercise both your heart and your mind as you create your own path towards happiness. Don't waste your time with regret. Spin wildly into your next action. Enjoy the present, each moment as it comes, because you'll never get another quite like it. And if you should ever look up and find yourself lost, simply take a breath and start over. Retrace your steps and back to the purest place in your heart where your hope lives. You'll find your way again". ~ Julia Brown |
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incrediblemind
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 46
Relationship: stuck with a sensor :(
IM:
Advanced Member
Posts:216
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| 13 Jan 2012 02:11 AM |
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Mox, I guess I'm just as puzzled as why someone might find me so enthralling. Certainly I feel complimented and validated, and I that accelerates me and keeps me in high functioning mode. Quite frankly, I have found there was almost always only one person in the room who was really interested in what I had to say, and that was me.
I completely agree with shotkot on point 3. It has been quite a lot of work for me to understand and accept that others don't have such a robotic mind, and especially so for those who are not equipped to deal with my display of strong frustration.
My wife is an ISTP, and she usually categorizes my talk as "a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky b-s", and I have to say many of her remarks feel soul-destroying. She does admit sometimes, that she has "come a long way" because of my thinking (and I'll admit the reverse is true), but really I feel stuck with the parking brake on. Any show of strong emotion to an ISTP has usually resulted in a severe backlash, whereas the same in the presence on an ENFP seems to result in them having a paradigm shift. What a world apart!
For me, a youtube search for "ENFP" revealed some of the most delightful creatures I have ever heard speak, and not really for any real identifiable reason - I was in heaven, while my ISTP wife found them quite irritating (which I think is very funny!) I wish I knew one personally. Insanely, I don't ever recall having any sort of conversation with anyone like that. That must change.
Maybe I do feel frightened - not of the future though, but maybe of being jammed up in a world that never has any progress. I certainly DO feel quite socially inept. It's grrreat being with someone socially-inclined - I'm in awe how they plough right on in and just light up a whole room. It's just amazing being next to someone who can do that. I have learned to "fake it", and sometimes I can pull it off for a while, but it's a huge amount of work to maintain congruency.
Anyway, I had a good day today. I took my wife to the beach for lunch. I thought it was very romantic. She commented afterwards that it felt like a wasted day, since she got nothing done at home. I'm looking forward to tomorrow - I know it will be great! Well, I think it will!
Life!
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: 3x/F
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Posts:35
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| 13 Jan 2012 10:15 AM |
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oooh ISTP's drive me completely insane. like oil and water we are. i find i "needle" them too much and they bring out a very aggressive challenging behavior in me. not pretty like the roses, poetry, unicorns, empirical data and funny observations that we enfp's normally display.
hmmm. why do we find intj's enthralling.......simply because we can't instantly intuit what drives you but can feel that we resonate with each other in some unquantifiable and intuitive way i think. and you answer our questions and seem to enjoy the banter, which we LOVE. (unlike any of the S types, who seem to get annoyed with it - in particular our ISTP friends. lol) and we like the way you think. |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 13 Jan 2012 11:10 PM |
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I'd be in an uncomfortable situation if Betsy asked. In fact, I wouldn't have the time to think about what I'd say to her if she did. My mastermind would fall apart because it didn't think that far ahead. I'd either tell her the cruel truth, attempt to tell her she doesn't need to know, or try to change the subject with some small talk that would be dumber than it usually is because it's part of a thoughtless action.
I find it interesting how much stock some people place in the MBTI. I was approached by an ENFP on another forum and she was asking me questions about my Enneagram since she liked to practice facereading people's personalities. I typically paste my face wherever I post so I was a natural target. But she told me she was like flypaper to INTJs. It just seems so dangerous and like too much of a generalization to me. I don't think I could hold someone up to that, or judge them based on their personality type like that right away. In that sense, I'm sort of glad people generally don't wear the four letters on their clothes everywhere they go. I feel like the MBTI is a more reliable tool to look in on one's own self than to look at others. |
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: 3x/F
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Posts:35
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| 13 Jan 2012 11:54 PM |
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DELPH - of course people take stock on their MBTI type - as you do as evidenced by the fact that you are here. with that being said, i agree, it's a tool in the tool chest to help us understand this terribly interesting thing called life.
question - if MBTI is a more reliable tool to examine one's self, why are you here? what was the motivation for you take the time to find an ENFP forum, register, read and respond?
p.s. LOL about your response to betsy. |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 16 Jan 2012 05:40 PM |
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I do take stock in the MBTI, but not to the point where it defines my destiny as a human being. I'd take offense personally if people acted like they knew who I was just by seeing my MBTI. And yet, you're right, here I am wearing the badge. While I don't like to admit my weaknesses I do have them and they resonate with the type.
I'm actually here because of my recent examination of myself through the MBTI among other things. Namely, multiple friends of mine who've never met each other telling me the same things about myself that I recognize as negative things. Also some examinations of wiser people of my type and what they've done to develop their non-dominant functions. I've come to realize that if I want to be a better person I'll need to develop my personality in ways that aren't quite comfortable or second-nature to me yet. My research has led me to believe that maybe people of the ENFP MBTI variety are comfortable with these things. While I wouldn't be able to observe these things wholly on a message board, I figured I could at least learn something through the way they handle things. From what I'm seeing this appears to be true.
I usually just lurk and read, but I saw questions addressed toward my type so I decided to respond. I'm actually quite surprised at how many INTJ topics (and INTJs!) there are in the ENFP forum. |
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Moxie
MBTI: ENFP
Age/Sex: 3x/F
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Posts:35
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| 16 Jan 2012 05:47 PM |
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well, I for one, am very happy that so many INTJ's are here on this forum and are responding. there does tend to me some sort of magnetic attraction betwixt the two types that i find fascinating...to the extent that even prior to any knowledge of MBTI, i have always been attracted to INTJ's (in the meta - and sometimes romantic - sense of the word) Have always been surrounded by your types. I think this is a somewhat common experience for us ENFP's.
thanks for taking the time to answer my incessant questions, there is a reason we are typified as the "journalist"
would you say that Fi is your most dominant "non-dominant" function? what strategies do you use to develop it? |
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DelphianEtude
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 29
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| 17 Jan 2012 10:24 PM |
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I can understand being attracted to certain types of people, even though it doesn't quite work that way for me. Many of my friends are sensors. I've never known anyone I was attracted to well enough to judge them into a type mostly because I don't act on my feelings, but that's no surprise considering that feelings are something I see as the biggest weakness of my personality right now. I don't really have an "ideal" when it comes to friendships or relationships.
If I understand things correctly, I'd say my Fi is actually my least dominant non-dominant function. I'm still trying to think of ways to develop it without falling back on my other functions. If even teaching preschool for 10 months couldn't do it then I begin to doubt if anything could. At the same time, I wasn't motivated to change anything back then so I think things will be different next time. It's like I'm barely able to consider feelings to a point where I can almost always avoid hurting them, but never enough to earn the respect of whoever I'm dealing with. Still, I know the potential to develop it is there. It just needs the right stimulus. |
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