I thinks sad that ENFP are prone to cheating, Im ENPF & i would never want to hurt someone like that

Posted By alysaria on 16 Nov 2009 08:46 PM

>.> Hmm...I suppose it's difficult to comprehend because once you reach that level of a relationship, commitment is kind of obvious.

DOG ANALOGY! INTJs are like german sheperds. You're devoted, kind of territorial, and protective....and every relationship brings people into your sphere of territory.  ^_^ ENFPs are like sweet-tempered mutts that just let anyone and everyone wander through the yard as long as they scratch us behind the ears....we're a little too friendly with everyone. However, there's always the one person that has most of the affection and attention of the ENFP. Therefore, the ENFP not in a relationship is like a puppy....running around slathering kisses on everyone who crosses their path until they get "adopted." >.> The trouble is, you have to train a puppy not to wander off....because they don't realize right away that the new home is where they have to stay.

Social connections to an ENFP are par for the course.... unlike INTJs, we assign roles to people (and assume that they have done the same). As long as the connection is there and we feel accepted and needed, everything is all happy. I tend to think of INTJs as having extensions of themselves as opposed to social connections. Friends and family in the INTJ sphere are on a pedestal, set at the same level as the INTJ - this makes them simultaneously receive the benefit of the doubt as well as the same high expectations that the INTJ has on himself or herself. In each of these cases, you were at a different level of understanding. They did not perceive the assigned role of boyfriend. Your expectation was that once you reached that point, because they were close enough to be an extension of you, it should have been understood. I think a good portion of the jarring realization was that they did not live up to your standards and crashed beyond the point of being able to give them the benefit of the doubt. >.> And since they were an extension of you, it was like a personal failure. -hug-

 

 

Thank you for the great dog analogy  I'm not convinced you got why I was so disappointed Alysaria. It would've been ridiculous of me to assume that I had a commitment with either one of the guys I talked about, after only a few dates. I didn't see them as my boyfriends at all. What disappointed me is this: 

- They were kind of committed elsewhere and shouldn't have started something with me. What troubles me more is that they specifically targeted me and went after me, even when they had girlfriends or were exclusively seeing someone. 

- They disappointed me because I made myself available to them and was hoping to explore, and they weren't free to do the same with me. 

- These experiences will taint my view of ENFPs and I'll be very cautious to go on a date with another ENFP. I'll ask specifically about other (potential) partners and will have to believe the answer before I proceed. 

My point is this: when an ENFP tries to ride two or more horses at the same time, someone ends up getting hurt. I think it would be wise not to date a lot of people at the same time for an ENFP, especially since you can't have a connection without feeling something. It must confuse you guys too, to have feelings for different people at the same time? I understand however that you are free to do whatever you want about how many you date. As long as you are honest with everyone involved, I don't see much harm in that. 

I didn't see them as an extension of myself and I certainly don't apply my high standards to other people. I drive myself hard and I know that I'm different, so I quit thinking that people are stupid or lazy for not doing the same, years ago. I don't see the experiences I talked about as personal failures either, I blame the ENFPs for not being honest and misleading me as well as the other women they were seeing. Did I get hurt and disappointed? Yes! Am I more cautious about dating an ENFP in the future? Yes! Will it put me off ENFPs? Hell no!

I love you guys, am just trying to understand you a bit more

- These experiences will taint my view of ENFPs and I'll be very cautious to go on a date with another ENFP. I'll ask specifically about other (potential) partners and will have to believe the answer before I proceed.

My point is this: when an ENFP tries to ride two or more horses at the same time, someone ends up getting hurt.

I blame the ENFPs for not being honest and misleading me as well as the other women they were seeing

>.> It's not that we're prone to cheating, it's that we're prone to not realizing we're in a serious, committed relationship. It may be obvious to the other person....but details have a way of flying right over the ENFP head.

Posted By Nathan on 20 Nov 2009 10:31 AM
*shrug* I actually know guys that date multiple girls at once and tell them that. I don't know how they do it, but I knew a guy who was seeing like three girls at once. He'd also be dating a girl for months without being in a committed relationship.

I actually think that is ok. As long as you tell everyone involved what the deal is, no one can complain and they enter the 'relationship' with their eyes open and can make informed decisions. It's the cheating and lying I don't like. And it wouldn't make me feel very special to be Saul's girlfriend # 7 with the option of being upgraded to # 4 if I were super fun.... But hey, that's just me  

'I don't care if naked supermodels came banging on my door, when I really love someone, I can't cheat. It's impossible. All other women cease to exist'.

Posted By sbalbom on 23 Nov 2009 10:53 PM

I've been hit on while I have been with someone I love and the thought of cheating on my love makes me physically ill. I don't even like watching movies with sexy actress because I would feel guilty finding them attractive. Good point.

Aaaaw! That is sweet Saul! You are the cutest enfp ever It will be fine to watch and lust after sexy actresses - even if you are with someone you love - it's quite normal Are you sure you aren't an infp deep down?

Aaaaw! That is sweet Saul! You are the cutest enfp ever It will be fine to watch and lust after sexy actresses - even if you are with someone you love - it's quite normal Are you sure you aren't an infp deep down?

INFPs and ENFPs are pretty similar....but INFP men strike me as being a little less.... I don't want to say promiscuous....but that kind of laid-back ENFP male 'tude that encourages more sexual encounters.

O.O I met a guy working at one of those skincare kiosks at the mall yesterday who reminded me so much of sbalbom it was eerie (mainly because of his advice and "why not" attitude about travel). When he realized I wasn't really into his pitch and had no intention of buying anything...and saw right through his tactics... he actually laughed. >.> I refused to answer the question "Which of these products did you like best?" because it's a trick question to make you admit that you're interested and makes most buyers more likely to be pressured into making a purchase. Blah. He got very candid with me, said that he actually made up his own pitch so it would be more genuine. >.> The "I like to be genuine" line....complete with a hand to the heart and an expression of "I'm trying really hard to explain this so you can understand me"....yea....it screamed ENFP to me. lol Then he confirmed it by admitting he was having a bad day and asking me if I'd like to sit down and chat....because of course it makes an ENFP feel better just to tell someone about their troubles. Naturally it was with a girl. >.> He was very laid back and live-and-let-live....and pretty well let me know that he casually dates girls he meets in the mall even though he has no intention of marrying any woman who isn't Jewish. It was a very random, unexpected meeting. O.O He bought me lunch and we chatted for a good 3 hours....while he was working. He told me that his boss doesn't mind that he's flighty....since he makes good sales. And he gave me his number. To most girls, that would be supremely flirtatious and indicate an interest toward something serious, regardless of the previous things he had said about dating and marriage. But then, I'm also an ENFP. I don't read anything into it. He was a nice guy who needed to talk and saw me as some divine connection of fate to make the day better. ^_^ I may or may not call him, but he doesn't expect me to and I don't expect or want a relationship....or the little fling he'd probably be ok with....but it wouldn't bother him if I didn't turn out to be a slut.

Most ENFPs are going to be pretty honest. Unlike most guys who hit on girls, ENFP guys usually don't have the ultimate goal of getting them in bed. If it happens, cool, but they're just as happy having a friendly conversation.

Posted By alysaria on 25 Nov 2009 12:17 PM

INFPs and ENFPs are pretty similar....but INFP men strike me as being a little less.... I don't want to say promiscuous....but that kind of laid-back ENFP male 'tude that encourages more sexual encounters.

Most ENFPs are going to be pretty honest. Unlike most guys who hit on girls, ENFP guys usually don't have the ultimate goal of getting them in bed. If it happens, cool, but they're just as happy having a friendly conversation.

I was just teasing Saul Alysaria. I know he's an ENFP. I think you are right about the ENFP being more open for sexual encounters than the male INFP. It sounds to me like you met your fellow ENFP and that you shared a good talk today, but you don't sound too enthused...

If anyone wants an update on my ENFP bachelors I can tell you this: 

# 1 Came crawling back to me today, telling me that he needed me, missed me etc. and wanted specific advice. He told me the reason he'd been dating a lot of women this summer was that he had been really hurt by his ex-girlfriend just before he met me, so he didn't trust women and sent us through all kinds of tests. He'd lied to me regarding when he broke up with his ex (I would never have started anything with him if I knew he'd been hurt so recently.) He told me that he still loves his ex and he was sorry he hurt me by making me feel used. So we're done and it's ok. I got my explanation which feels good.

# 2 Haven't heard from him, but I know I will. 

# 3 (The American,) He wants me to come back to the States and wants us to stay in touch via emails despite that he hates writing. I haven't dared to ask about his other date. I will come back for another workshop, but not for him. I'm going back to learn and to be creative and it'll be uncomfortable being around him since I'm attracted to him, but I'll survive. I don't trust him after what he did. 

Most ENFPs are going to be pretty honest. Unlike most guys who hit on girls, ENFP guys usually don't have the ultimate goal of getting them in bed. If it happens, cool, but they're just as happy having a friendly conversation.

I'm glad my thread was cathartic for you JerseyCity, thank's for sharing It helps me understand you ENFPs better. It sounds like you weren't deeply in love with the California woman, hence the cheating. And that goes for the others you've cheated on or hurt too.

Let me ask you, have you ever been really, deeply in love with someone? Did you cheat on her?

What are the hard or difficult issues you think should be discussed before getting intimate for you to not loose interest in the woman? Will you develop more feelings if we don't jump into bed with you prematurely? I.e would you respect her more? What would be the ideal number of dates for you to still be interested, without having had sex? 4 dates? 7 dates? More? If you are attracted to a woman you are dating, the dates are great and there's intense sexual attraction between the two of you: you are engaging in kissing and maybe a bit more, but you are avoiding the main event, would that trigger your interest, or cause you to loose interest? I've heard that men hate it when it gets hot & heavy and suddenly the woman slams down the breaks...

@Psyko: Regarding the first post. On the plus side, they told you before they had sex with you. 

Often enough, I have just wanted to be friends with a girl with her suspecting something else. Maybe they felt you were someone worth knowing and investing time into, even if they were in a romantic relationship. 

... Or maybe they were testing the waters to see if they'd found someone more interesting then their current GF (sorry). 

Alright INTJ response to your questions from your latest post  

Let me ask you, have you ever been really, deeply in love with someone? Did you cheat on her?  

Didn't even acknowledge the deeply in love part until after the fact  

Of course, I wouldn't cheat even if I disliked the woman. I'd have to end it first, or if I couldn't for some reason (married maybe).. then I still wouldn't cheat (yet... my personality is getting darker, with my decreasing faith in people in general ) 

What are the hard or difficult issues you think should be discussed before getting intimate for you to not loose interest in the woman? 

Is it just me... if I've decided I like you - that's just the way it is, and I will not acknowledge being wrong easily. Lets see... Make sure she's intelligent, independent minded, ambitious, and honest. Everything else can be worked on.

Will you develop more feelings if we don't jump into bed with you prematurely? 

Difficult to say. I'd count sex as one more enjoyable shared experience that deepens a relationship. If you have very little feeling for the other person, then I suppose the sex might be too early. 

What would be the ideal number of dates for you to still be interested, without having had sex?  

You would be getting friend-zoned at too high a number, if there is still friendship or attraction. Although, I'm inclined to say that it shouldn't (in theory) matter as long as we're both enjoying each other's company  

If it isn't an open-ended exploration of each other as possibly friends and possibly more, and you're definitely looking for sex then I think that after 4 the investment is becoming rather high, and the woman had better be amazingly attractive, or otherwise just amazing. 

If you are attracted to a woman you are dating, the dates are great and there's intense sexual attraction between the two of you: you are engaging in kissing and maybe a bit more, but you are avoiding the main event, would that trigger your interest, or cause you to loose interest? I've heard that men hate it when it gets hot & heavy and suddenly the woman slams down the breaks...  

If you want to refuse but not lose interest, refuse in a flirtatious manner that implies that there is definitely still something in the future - that it is awesome and worth waiting for. Otherwise, yes, if there is intense sexual attraction, and kissing and the sense of something more about to happen and she puts the breaks on it, implying she was just playing with you and leading you on...I think that's good reason to be pissed. 

I think its similar to your annoyance at being told about other relationships several dates in. You felt that something deeper was being offered, but you were deceived. Not cool.