Ahhhh Nadette your passion is so awesome!

Anyways, I think these guys are just being this way to try to act all hard-core bad-ass "I am going to play the Devil's Advocate to see if can get her up in arms" trolling. The INTJ troll. Nothing to see here. Deep down, they really don't believe their own "justice" crap. Like I said, they just have this puffy shoulder facade they need to uphold otherswise people will "hurt" them.

Emotions are scary to the INTJ. That is why they are hellbent on using "reason" and "logic" and "rules" to define their thought process. But, no one is that emotionless and that is why the INTJs are so attracted to ENFPs is we are the only ones that can cut through the crap, help them loosen up and express their emotions - which is really what they want to, and NEED to be doing.

Trust me, when push comes to shove they will often back down. And nothing is more perfect than an ENFP putting them in their place - we have this uncanny ability to do so while still being loving about it.

Posted By Mobocracy on 26 Jun 2011 09:43 AM

Ahhhh Nadette your passion is so awesome!

Anyways, I think these guys are just being this way to try to act all hard-core bad-ass "I am going to play the Devil's Advocate to see if can get her up in arms" trolling. The INTJ troll. Nothing to see here. Deep down, they really don't believe their own "justice" crap. Like I said, they just have this puffy shoulder facade they need to uphold otherswise people will "hurt" them.

Emotions are scary to the INTJ. That is why they are hellbent on using "reason" and "logic" and "rules" to define their thought process. But, no one is that emotionless and that is why the INTJs are so attracted to ENFPs is we are the only ones that can cut through the crap, help them loosen up and express their emotions - which is really what they want to, and NEED to be doing.

Trust me, when push comes to shove they will often back down. And nothing is more perfect than an ENFP putting them in their place - we have this uncanny ability to do so while still being loving about it.

Yeah it's all fine, doesn't really concern me much; I've lived and loved ENFPs, but I think its one of these cases where everyone gets a lot out of it.  If you can't accept someone at their worst you generally don't deserve them at their best.

However that said, the first thing you do is understand them and have some sort of mechanism in place to deal with it based upon experience.  Those timer switches in your head for when its appropriate to bump into an ENFPs sulky introverting session with waffles and such business.  When it's not a good idea to harass the INTJ when they've just walked in the door.  We live and learn.

Although you should be slightly careful with what you are recommending above, despite what it may appear in the surface, from I've discovered that I do have in common with other INTJs is that even at the lowest level of trust we are willing to share material and access to such; by contrast the emotions are under lock and key.  The opposite is true of ENFPs I've found 'this is mine, don't touch it' seems to apply even when the emotions are splurging all over.  Different people value things in different way, if you associate a high value in a sitatuon or an object it doesn't make sense to assume those criteria are the same for another or others.

So sure, I'm happy enough to deal with the emotional slurges of others and just smile, even when it's a tirade of abuse towards me (yes, live and love it) but at the same time, someone who continually forces me into that zone will soon find themselves far, far out of favour.  We just need to learn to 'only go there' in the right way or timeframe; but no-ones perfect, including INTJ brothers who move cars, or ENFP sisters who write it on forums, or INTJ community interlopers who find it commentworthy.

Posted By Nadette on 26 Jun 2011 09:01 AM
You know what kills me is that you think that it is ok to inflict an undesirable either-or situation on someone. It is not. I did not "allow" him to move my car. I communicated that both options were undesirable to me and the negotiations needed to continue.
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exactly.  He was being a smart-aleck, and it was wrong.

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HE chose to disrespect my need for further negotiation. Doubtless, this threatened him as I usually 'win'. Ironically, ENFP logic is usually stronger than INTJ logic. Anyways, just as he gave me two options, I gave him two options also. A) Negotiate with me until we are both happy, or B) Totally disrespect my human rights (independence/property ownership/free will/etc.)

Also, you do not adore ENFPs. You think we are forgetful and irresponsible. You are amused by us and attracted to us, but your lack of respect and empathy shows that you actually think very poorly of us.

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Just to let you know, some of them really do get over this. ^^^  I totally agree with you that INTJ's let both sides show through.  My INTJ honestly thinks the same way naturally, but has grown to a point where he doesn't act out in such a childish manner. 

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I think that you may be looking at this as a very black and white issue where there was one wrong: I was not parked correctly. This being the only wrong, the only way to fix said wrong is to move the car. How does not matter. All that matters is that the wrong was corrected. You are completely missing that there are tons of little complexifying factors. You are also missing that disregarding someone's wishes and breaking into their property is also wrong.

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^^^THIS! Since when does stealing and copying a key to a car that's not yours, then entering the car without permission somehow fit into an INTJ sense of justice?  It's called stealing.  She could have legally called the cops and had him arrested.   By the same token, he could have called a towing company and had the car moved legally, but he chose not to.  This INTJ refused to see the big picture.  He had to prove he was "right."  I live with a mature INTJ and an immature (6 year old) ENTJ.  This is seriously something the 6 year old would have done. Like, "I'm going to break my sister's toy because she broke mine!!! SO THERE!"

^^^THIS! Since when does stealing and copying a key to a car that's not yours, then entering the car without permission somehow fit into an INTJ sense of justice? It's called stealing. She could have legally called the cops and had him arrested. By the same token, he could have called a towing company and had the car moved legally, but he chose not to. This INTJ refused to see the big picture. He had to prove he was "right." I live with a mature INTJ and an immature (6 year old) ENTJ. This is seriously something the 6 year old would have done. Like, "I'm going to break my sister's toy because she broke mine!!! SO THERE!"

Truthfully, I believe it is just him acting out. He wanted to show you up.  But in all fairness to your brother, I find that my maturity age/level drops about 15+ years when interacting with my siblings.
 

However, he didn't exactly steal the key and make a copy of it. From my understanding, he was just given it by family and never returned it to Nadette. And I don't think he did it to hurt you or make you feel violated. I think it was a moment of INTJ "justice" or what sometimes comes out as INTJ "asshole tendencies" - even though we don't mean it to be as such.

other INTJs is that even at the lowest level of trust we are willing to share material and access to such; by contrast the emotions are under lock and key.  The opposite is true of ENFPs I've found 'this is mine, don't touch it' seems to apply even when the emotions are splurging all over.

Posted By Nadette on 02 Jul 2011 08:37 AM

other INTJs is that even at the lowest level of trust we are willing to share material and access to such; by contrast the emotions are under lock and key.  The opposite is true of ENFPs I've found 'this is mine, don't touch it' seems to apply even when the emotions are splurging all over.

This is interesting, Jim. Are you theorizing that ENFPs are more private with their belongings and INTJs are more likely to not care?

In short yes, less sentimental value and emotional privacy versus emotional sharing and high sentimental value

So your first post here was to come an correct us?

Welcome!

Dehumanize? I wouldn't say I went that far? Just expressing myself - no hidden agenda here....