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INFJ confrontation fail
Last Post 28 Jan 2012 12:15 PM by incrediblemind. 22 Replies.
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 18 Nov 2011 09:26 PM |
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I have an INFJ roommate has been my friend for years and was even my roommate throughout much of college. We mostly get along great and are compatible roommates, but we suck at confrontation (not surprisingly.) It is clear that she is extremely uncomfortable with it. I'm usually not, but her discomfort makes me uncomfortable... In the past, I've let a lot of things go in order to put her out of her confrontational misery. Naturally, this has caused some frustration and regret on my part. I've decided since moving in together again, that I'm not going to let her inadvertantly bully me into giving into her all the time.

It hasn't been going well. Or, maybe it actually has. I've stood up for my point of view, but she becomes really irrational, offended, and seems to think I'm a bad person because I suggest that my opinion or point of view is just as worthy as hers. She also just takes everything super personally. I don't even know how to communicate with her when she is like this because logic and hard data don't do anything for her. It is like, when I point out that she couldn't possibly be right because of facts that are undeniable (even to her) she looks like she is going to burst into tears and usually huffs off like I am a horrible person. 
Sometimes (and this is the part that really drives me batty) she'll huff off like she is really hurt and then just never talk about it again. Everything is apparently fine. It makes me feel really insecure. I feel like I don't always know how she feels about me. Sometimes I ask her if she is upset at me and she gets annoyed and says that just because she isn't as exuberantly expressive as me doesn't mean that she doesn't care about me. Ugh, I just wish that I could point out her inconsistencies without her getting upset. She acts like there are these unalterable rules about how she perceives things. Like, there is absolutely no way that she could misperceive something.
Blah. Does anyone have advice for getting through to INFJs without hurting their feelings? Is this even an INFJ thing, or is she just immature?
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
 Grand Author Posts:779

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| 19 Nov 2011 02:51 AM |
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Three general rules i found out that work when voicing criticism/dissolving arguments: 1. It is good to use the "I think..." message instead of "You did...". The "You" form is unconsciously seen as an attack, and so the shields go up, while the "I" form is seen as an opinion. 2. When logic ("I think...") does not work, use feelings ("I feel..."). If they are in "irrational mode", use the "I feel..." message to show you also have feelings. This reassures them. (I think it is a nice gesture to show somebody who gets really worked up about something that you have feelings too. It builds some common ground) 3. Try to use the "we" when looking for a solution or asking questions about "what are we going do to now?" I hope this helps you. |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
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| 20 Nov 2011 11:49 AM |
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An anonymous INFJ: My ENFP friend and I lived together for a few months, and were friends for three years before living together. I also knew an INFJ who lived with her close ENFP friend for about two years. Both situations ended badly, but I'll explain to give you an idea.
In both scenarios, the I and the other INFJ had trouble with the ENFPs' silence/struggle to communicate anger. On the positive side, it rarely happened. On the negative side, ENFPs seem to really hate expressing negative sentiments so when they came out, they were sometimes EXTREMELY negative, or as an ENFJ friend of mine put it, "wicked." My ENFP friend seemed to have trouble communicating her needs for space whereas doing so is not particularly hard for me. Sometimes she would storm onto the balcony and shut the door seemingly out of nowhere and stay out there with her laptop for the whole night, and sometimes she would get angry with me for going to bed early and leaving her to watch television alone.
The other INFJ I knew once had to call her ENFP roommate to pick her up after she had gotten a parking ticket and as far as I know, the ENFP didn't speak to her for a week after that. Withholding strong emotions from us feels like betrayal/abandonment to an INFJ.
Before moving in with my friend, I had had another ENFP roomie for two years and it seemed like though she was interested in what I had to say, ultimately she was uninterested in spending time with me if we weren't doing anything 'cool'. Sorry this all sounds so negative--I can honestly say my ENFP friend is one of my favorite people in the world and has made my life so much better by remaining in it, but I really believe living with friends is almost always a bad idea. The best thing I can suggest is to make sure both you and your INFJ friend are very comfortable being open with each other before tryign to live together, and that you can put your idealism aside enough to get along normally even when you don't see eye to eye. Ultimately, it's the people who are involved that are important, not abstract thinking/feeling if you know what I mean.
TBH I think I was a little more comfortable than my ENFP friend was, having had an INFP sibling and more or less knowing what to expect.
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
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| 20 Nov 2011 10:46 PM |
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Huh, the roles were completely reversed in that scenario. I guess it isn't really a personality thing. |
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Stripes  MBTI: intj Age/Sex: M Relationship: IM:
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| 20 Nov 2011 11:50 PM |
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And now you know what we INTJs have to deal with regarding irrational feelings, even when the facts speak for themself
Enjoy |
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| When all else fails, improvise! |
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:962

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| 21 Nov 2011 09:29 AM |
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The thing I've learned about high leading Fe users (my sister is probably my best friend and an INFJ and I've been seeing an ENFJ off and on for about a year - currently off because of a bad fight this weekend over some pretty big issues) is that stability is highly important to them. You can have a heated battle and hurt her feelings and mostly all she has to do is be able to cry/yell it out and she'll get over it and be fine. I think that's what most people miss is that Fe users are like mush hearts who act like balloons. They will puff up and verbally assault with the full force of all the air inside them and then you'll be left with the shrivelled up/overstretched balloon with spit (tears) dripping out the sides and apologies for their craziness. Because Fe doesn't like disharmony and it doesn't like it's own paradoxical nature. On one level the user has his/her own feelings/desires that he/she tries to put into practice, but when she can't get the desired result (reality to match up with fantasy) all she can do is become frustrated and emotionally puff up which just creates more disharmony. But the fact that she comes back and still associates with you indicates that she cares because a really upset INFJ/ENFJ would desire to leave and not come back. This stability is particularly important to an INFJ. Remember that we introverts don't tend to let a whole lot of people in, so the simple fact that she listens to you and comes back and still wants to be your roommate and still says that she cares says that she does. Her actions tell you how she feels. |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
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| 21 Nov 2011 05:04 PM |
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Thanks for the thoughtful post, PG. We have since discussed the issue that inspired me to create the op. I recognize that she does care about me since she is willing to discuss things with me, but I'm not sure how to cope with how she treats me. I'll ask her about some apartment business stuff like whether or not the dishwasher was run. She'll answer me, but when I find evidence that contradicts what she says, she takes it really personally. I'm not trying to attack her (obviously), I'm just trying to figure out whether or not the dishes are clean (or whatever...) It really hurts that she seems to feel so insecure about what I think about her. It's like she thinks that I think she is an idiot if I point out that she misperceived something. The ironic thing is that I do start to feel like she is an idiot when she takes something like this so personally. This comes across and a "vicious cycle" is created. Anyways, I'll innocently offend her. She huffs off leaving me feeling powerless and like crap. I carry this feeling with me and try to address what happened as soon as possible, but she has already moved on and greatly resents my need to discuss it and hates even more that I feel the need to make talking about it a priority. She was deeply offended that I requested she interrupt her quiet saturday activities to discuss things. I feel like she kind of owes it to me since she is the one that created how upset I felt. She can't admit that it really was all her fault. She wants to pass blame off to me. I sympathize that she feels vulnerable, but I don't want to participate in a dishonest relationship. I want her to be strong enough to admit her occasional idiocy and not feel threatened by everything I say. Seriously, we all have moments of genius and idiocy. It is a part of being human and you need to have humor and confidence enough to admit to both. I don't know how to communicate this to her. She needs me to treat her like she is always a genius, but I can't do that. I resent that she expects that of me. |
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:962

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| 23 Nov 2011 04:30 PM |
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You're welcome, Nadette. I've yet to figure out how to cope with this. I've figured out ways to improve it by say, creating a work-a-round, like using magnet that says the dishes are done or not done, but if someone is going to take something as simple as dishwashing (for example) so personally then there isn't really a whole lot you can do. It sounds more of a maturity issue than anything else, because the more mature an INFJ or ENFJ is, the more she'll have realized when and what is good to say at certain times and when it is necessary to shrug things off. The problem is, likely, in this case, I think, a little bit of immaturity and the fact that you've spent so much time avoiding fighting, that she might not know how to handle it or how to take it when you do, but I could be wrong with that one. |
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Kairi  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 22-Male Relationship: Single IM: robertolisi@live.it(That's my MSN IM)
 I've posted some Posts:22

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| 26 Nov 2011 01:06 PM |
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My opinion:
I'm pretty sure I'm an INFJ,so I'll tell you an "insider opinion",on this problem!
1)She is(like most INFJ,me included)probably quite stubborn about "Her" view of the problem.Don't forget that Ni,(due to the fact that vision and intuition are so clear to us)make us quite stubborn.Plus,Fe.This is another part of the problem...we tend to take everything personally(in a conflict,we tend to think that the situation we're in is our fault).Other than this,Fe strives for harmony,so we tend to think that we MUST do everything is in our power to change the situation...
We hate conflict,because we think that is always our fault.
Probably your roommate thinks that all of this situation is her fault.
My advice:Write in a letter all your responsibilities of the situation,and tell her that it's not her fault,AT ALL!
Plus,it wouldn't be bad if you told her all her good points...anything good that you noticed since you met her.
I don't think she will forget at all what she felt if listen to this advice!
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 26 Nov 2011 04:46 PM |
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Yeah, it is just a weird, probably more complex than it even appears kind of situation. We talked about it and I don't actually remember what the exact outcome was. I guess it was good because we have been getting on fine lately, but I know something will probably come up again because I don't feel like everything is fixed yet. I think she just needs to learn to trust me. She had really bad roommates before me and I think I intimidate her a little. It feels like she is waiting for me to write her off as a complete idiot any minute. I don't know. One thing I think I might have figured out though, is that Ni tends to make assumptions. I was reading about it (online, so...) and the descriptions were saying that it has this way of "predicting the future" or something because it ...I don't remember. In any case, it super trusts itself and is usually right. Thing is, I think my INFJ is trusting it too much because it isn't always right. Maybe it was Ti too. We were describing the way I think vs. the way she thinks. I think in a line from point to point. She said that she thinks in dots all over the place and that she "just knows" stuff without having to go through the whole line of logic. So... Me: "This is true and this is true therefore this is also true." Her: "No, it's this." Me: "How do you figure? I see this and this and this." Her: "It just is. Why don't you trust me? Stop treating me like an idiot!" Back to Ni. If my Ni understanding is correct, it makes assumptions based on what it "just knows." I had issues with an ENTJ about this too. So, word to the Ni folks out there, it is way cool that you have such solid intuitions, but it is respectful to doubt them when they apply to others. P.S. Thanks for putting so much thought into this, PG. We actually do have a good system for knowing when the dishes are clean, but we have a third, really cute, adorable, much younger ESFJ roommate who can be careless and forgetful sometimes... |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 26 Nov 2011 04:58 PM |
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Oh, I'm sorry, Kairi! I didn't see your post. That is actually very helpful and makes a lot of sense! She was quite upset and kept saying, "So, it's ALL my fault and none of it is yours?!" Well, none of it really was my fault... I was quite innocent, so I didn't know how to respond. I think she was taking on way more responsibility than she needed to though. I was just upset that she got upset, not about what I originally asked her. Maybe I just need to reassure her that I'm not upset and nothing is anybody's fault when I initially bring up household issues. Like, for instance: I wonder where all the spoons have disappeared to. So, I say, "INFJ, this isn't anybody's fault and I'm not upset, but I am curious about the fact that many spoons have disappeared. You are so conscientious and good at noticing things, I'm wondering if you have any evidence that might aide in my investigation." (This situation is entirely made up.) Am I on the right track, Kairi? |
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Kairi  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 22-Male Relationship: Single IM: robertolisi@live.it(That's my MSN IM)
 I've posted some Posts:22

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| 27 Nov 2011 02:27 AM |
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I think you really are on the right track!
By the way,an INFJ likes to be useful,and she will probably appreciate the harmony this way of confrontation will bring.I think it might be a good way to start! |
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:962

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| 28 Nov 2011 09:06 AM |
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Anytime, Nadette. I tend to think of Ni as less about assumptions and more about hunches (or maybe the word "assumption" just has such negative connotation so I prefer it.) Anyway, Ni will see a few sets of values, A and C, for example, and feel like they are connected. It is then up to Te or Ti to realize whether there is any validity in this inferred connection. Ni = A might be linked to C which could give us D Ne, meanwhile, will feel like a large dataset of values are potentially the correct course; therefore, Ne will find itself open to more flexibility in potential options initially. Because Ni tends to find itself right often then it tends to feed the confidence of the Ni user to its infallibility. It is, then, with time, age, and experience, that Ni can realize it's imperfections and attempt to adjust accordingly. You do also have to remember that ENFPs to an INFJ (or an INTJ) aren't always so readily readable. If you rarely bring up issues of contention because you choose not to create disharmony then Ni won't be able to understand the pattern associated with these problems. It will then "assume," potentially falsely that the issue being brought up is more important than it might be and thus the mistake of the INFJ committing it is worse than it potentially is. Make sense? Since you chose to avoid bringing up issues then the issue you did bring up carries more weight because it is one of the few issues you have readily brought up. |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
 Grand Author Posts:779

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| 28 Nov 2011 07:58 PM |
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Difference between Ne and Ni imho: Ne "assumes", because it thinks that there are many possible outcomes/interpretations, while Ni "knows", because it sees the most probable outcome/interpretation alone. Which is, because it is the most probable, right most of the time. Which leads to Ni users being confident in their hunches and abilities, while Ne users think there could be many solutions and all of them could be right (We Ne users don't like to fixate ourselves to one solution - it could be wrong! If you have many solutions at hand, then there is a big chance that at least one of them is right, A does not work it seems, just try B, then C, and so on. One thing that we really don't like is running out of options). Thus the Ni user's confidence stems from them being right most of the time, while the Ne user often seeks other sources of confidence. |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 28 Nov 2011 08:38 PM |
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Thanks, Jan, that is a really helpful explanation for me! Also, I just want to make clear, that inasmuch as I'm not a fan of people making assumptions about me or being stuck on the "one right way," I totally get high off of Ni most of the time. Talking to an Ni friend propels my thoughts to unprecedented heights and literally feels amazing. I think that talking to Ni helps my many scattered thoughts/ideas/possibilities become more focused and make more sense. Sometimes, it is just plain comforting. Ni feels so much more grounded than me.
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:962

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| 29 Nov 2011 08:30 AM |
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Also, I just want to make clear, that inasmuch as I'm not a fan of people making assumptions about me or being stuck on the "one right way," I totally get high off of Ni most of the time. Talking to an Ni friend propels my thoughts to unprecedented heights and literally feels amazing. I think that talking to Ni helps my many scattered thoughts/ideas/possibilities become more focused and make more sense. Sometimes, it is just plain comforting. Ni feels so much more grounded than me.
Oh, the paradox behind Ne/Ni interactions.
Ni to Ne narrows down the possibilities to workable options. Therefore, that which grounds propels to unprecedented heights.
Ne to Ni refines the conclusions it has generated. Therefore, that which widens view focuses the "truth" behind the reality.
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incrediblemind  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 46 Relationship: stuck with a sensor :( IM:
 Advanced Member Posts:216

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| 17 Jan 2012 05:50 PM |
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NPD ? |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 17 Jan 2012 10:10 PM |
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I don't know, incrediblemind. She really isn't bad to live with. The things I bring up are stupid things that I wouldn't even bother mentioning to someone I didn't respect. Is anyone else like this? Those I respect, I challenge. Also, if I consider you a close friend, I will want to become closer friends and will take advantage of small confrontational situations to build our relationship such that we have a tried and true problem solving mechanism in place. I recently discovered that INFJ friend feels attacked and unloved when I mention little things like about dishes, etc. I'm just getting frustrated with INFJ friend though because it seems like she doesn't actually want to be close friends. She is actively seeking a shallow relationship with me (and I think she thinks it is deep!) Yep, just venting here. She got all antsy and weird when I asked her where she had gone after slipping out of the apartment for a few hours yesterday. It wasn't a big deal, I was just curious and as a friend, take an interest in her life.... but she was really uncomfortable and said she feels claustrophobic when people ask her where she goes. Really?! So, I'm just supposed to not care or take an interest in her life at all? I'm not trying to be controlling or even nosey. I feel insulted. She just doesn't tell me things...until way after they happen. There will be a death in her family and I won't hear about it until a week or two later (when I LIVE with her!) She was laid off from her job recently and waited several days to tell me (once again, I'm living with her....) I feel like she is constantly shooing me away from her life and that is really insulting. I want to be a good friend and be there for her and have her trust me enough to confide in me. I confide in her. Are all INFJs like this? I would venture that they are not great matches for us. |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 17 Jan 2012 11:23 PM |
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You know, I shouldn't be generalizing. I still love INFJs and have other INFJ friends who are different. And, INFJ roomie is an alright person/friend. We all have differences that need toleration. |
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incrediblemind  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 46 Relationship: stuck with a sensor :( IM:
 Advanced Member Posts:216

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| 18 Jan 2012 01:19 PM |
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As an INTJ, I share your tolerant outlook, after all my wife is an ISTP with NPD - can there be anything worse? ENFP and INTJ types share a trait that many find quite irritating, and even intimidating, and that is one of asking seemingly innocent questions such as their whereabouts, or simple day to day tasks - as you say such as tidying up. It seems to me these are taken as "trick questions", and I wonder sometimes if they were inadvertently intended that way perhaps.. But I think you and I both could take a lesson on cutting ties in the face of impossible odds stacked against us - some people I don't think we should be making excuses for, or at least saving our respect for those who don't become overtly sensitive or abusive in the face or what we regard as normal conversation. It does shock me, however, that these people are sometimes looked up to my many as valuable socially or otherwise, when frankly I find them corrupt - and I think many others would as well if they saw their poor behaviour normally kept behind closed doors. Maybe its just me? *shrug* Thanks for the exchange on this.. much appreciated! |
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