Did your parents add any color to your personality? No one matches type descriptions exactly, and even with close fits, different traits have different emphases.

For example, I have an ISTJ father and an ENFJ mother.

If I had a different father, it is possible I would not be as concrete and empirical as I am today. I have twin INTJ cousins who were raised by an ENTJ-ENFP combo, and they're "fregan" dumpster divers who believe every conspiracy theory on the planet. I shudder at the possibility that I could have turned out like that.

In addition, I probably see things in personal terms more than I would if I didn't have an ENFJ mother. I'm fascinated by gossip and actively indulge in it! I also love the humanities, since whether in philosophy or art or literature, someone is always trying to display their own vision of how the world is.

Thoughts?

Posted By JHBowden on 12 Sep 2009 06:05 PM

I have twin INTJ cousins who were raised by an ENTJ-ENFP combo, and they're "fregan" dumpster divers who believe every conspiracy theory on the planet.

 

Conspiracy theories are obviously not good, but as an INTJ, don't you thing freganism makes sense?  I don't do it myself, but it seems like a very sensible thing to do... supermarkets throw away perfectly good food, so fregans eat it.  It's a shame they have to sneak into a bin to reach the food, but as long as they wash themselves afterwards, what's the problem?

Everything value-based, though, we split entirely on.

Growing up though politics was never an issue-- the media, the schools, and Hollywood echoed everything I heard at home. It was mainly faulty predictions that made me question my own views-- Chomsky predicting Eastern Europe, without Soviet beneficience would become an exploited, improverished Western colony; Nader characterizing global trade as a race to the bottom; Scott Ritter and William Pitt predicting the Iraq War would be World War III -- obvious errors that lead one to ask, why are we getting it wrong?

What's really weird is despite the faith in common sense, the ISTJ has great difficulty telling the difference between appearance and reality; everything in their psychology seems to be appearance alone.

My Dad has a tendency to purchase gimmicky products, from do-it-yourself bread-makers to environmentally friendly toilets to supposedly efficient water-heaters. There is a strange interplay between trust and paranoia-- words are always taken at face value, but when things fail to work as advertised, it is a deliberate, malevolent conspiracy! My ENFJ mother is far more likely to stick with what is tried and proven since she doesn't like hassle. There's an empirical difference between word and deed, between logos and ergon, that ISTJs have trouble living with.

I think this is why ISTJs spaz out so much about lying, people not keeping their commitments, not being on time and so forth-- their minds work in a system of appearances and good-will. Dante, after all, placed liars in the lowest circles of the Inferno, since they dissolve the bonds that make social life possible.

Myself, I'm far more skeptical and inductive. I'm not afraid to ask, "what does that mean?" "why?" or "how do we know this?" A basic case: I never take my INFP brother at his word about arriving on time-- I just augment what he says by a x3 Jeff multiplier, and it all works out. Or, if I want to meet at a movie at a certain time, I select a much earlier nominal time to meet, knowing from experience he'll predictably show up late, like clockwork. Why can't the ISTJs figure this out?

It is so weird sbalbom! I was married to an ISTJ too, we were together for a long time. He too was extremely intelligent and we had fruitful discussions that I loved. It took me years to figure out that we communicated on different levels and that was why we argued so much. He is still the smartest person I know. But the anxiety... always so afraid of everything and for things to happen/not to happen the way he wanted them to. Another man that made me feel like I was the man of the relationship since he needed a lot of emotional support and reassurance. Leaning on an INTJ for emotional support is not a good idea...

To answer the OP's question: I think that my parents screwed me up. Two ESTJs wanting me to be more 'agreeable', less stubborn and more sociable. I had no patience for that. I used to lock myself into my room and read and went to the library during the holidays to read more. I brought books home in a tiny wheelbarrow that my granddad had made especially for me. I had this intense need or drive if you want to always learn more and understand how things worked. (But theoretically, I was/am not very practical.) Have you've seen the film Mathilda? I was a bit like her without the ability to perform telekinesis. My parents made fun of me for reading so much.... That's the support I got for always bringing home straight As and staying out of trouble. My parents made me feel like an idiot and a misfit. The only thing that mattered in my family was outward appearance and money. They even told me not to read newspapers every day because I exhausted them with my questions about current events. I still feel strange when I'm with my parents, like I'm looking at them from another world and I'll never fit into their world, and vice versa. The conversation can be quite forced. They don't know me, they don't know my passions or my grievances. I suspect they never will...

If your question is whether we think that your preferences are innate or learned behavior, I think we are born with our preferences and that they are so strong that they can never be disregarded.

The relationship I have with my ENFP sister is a different chapter though. We are a match made in heaven. Nothing can stop us and we feel like we can rule the world together 

I was going to say that she got it, that she could think like an N but she really chose not to.

As the major ISTJ in my life, I can defnitely testify to the placing a high premium on punctuality and telling the truth; I wouldn't say my Dad is organized though. He has an artless, functionalist way of looking at things, and doesn't mind a mess, leaving work unfinished, or dressing like a slob. There must be some sort of order to the madness though; mess with the mess, and he'd get really irate.

Two ESTJs wanting me to be more 'agreeable', less stubborn and more sociable. I had no patience for that. I used to lock myself into my room and read and went to the library during the holidays to read more. I brought books home in a tiny wheelbarrow that my granddad had made especially for me. I had this intense need or drive if you want to always learn more and understand how things worked.

I envy you that childhood with stimulating books to read and music to listen to. I had no one who introduced me to anything I found stimulating. I remember wanting to go see ballet performances, since the aesthetics of it appealed to me. My parents thought it'd be a waste of money since I was so young I couldn't understand the performance. What's to understand?

I didn't exactly find the ISTJ too needy or a pushover (hence the frequent arguments), but I felt a bit claustrophobic with the thought of having to spend the rest of my life with him, after we married. He's a workaholic and I barely saw him, he's not affectionate at all and is preoccupied with appearance as most SJs are. I could care less about how I'm perceived by others. (Ok, I admit I care a bit but only by people I respect.) I could depend on him for objective criticism, which was useful sometimes. I can call him every now and then and ask him to give me his honest opinion about an idea I have, and he always does, and always put my feet on the ground. I too thought that he'd make a horrible father, and he is. We share a dog together and I barely let him take care of our dog when I'm out of town. (He has a new girlfriend now though, who I like a lot and I trust her to take care of our dog. I'm convinced she's an ENFx, I'm thinking about warning her, that she'll freeze to death in that relationship, but I'm not going to.) He's attracted to Ns, most of his friends are Ns, so I had stimulating conversations with them. I could be up all night talking to a friend of his, with my ISTJ and the friend's SJ girlfriend looking at each other wondering if we were insane, jumping from topic to topic and genuinely taking pleasure in exploring possibilities together. I miss his friends more than him... heh,heh! Something very specific happened for me to leave him. I was in an accident suffering a head trauma and I was depending on my husband's care for a while. He never took on that responsibility, he worked as much as ever while I suffered, our dog suffered (I couldn't take her out,) and he even left town to be with friends a few days after my accident, leaving me alone in bed. My SJ dad came to my rescue that weekend and helped me to the bathroom, making sure I could eat something. I thought that I could never really feel that I could depend on my ISTJ to be there for me, so I decided to leave and be on my own. He was devastated and argued with me, since we hadn't been married for long, that I should stay because other people would talk. I felt at constant war with him, you know what I did.....

If ISTJ parents have ISTJ children they'd be fine wouldn't they?

I do need an ENFP, I'm open to any NF type, but I'm ridiculously attracted to ENFPs. Please hook me up with your friends When I'm in a relationship, I'm very affectionate myself, I need to touch/be touched by my partner all the time and I don't get tired of it. I'm very physical. But I'm not physical until that 'level' is reached and I feel that I my touch is welcome. My INFP ex told me I had magic fingers and a magic touch, and several other guys have told me they love it too, so I'm not the stereotypical cold INTJ bitch...  Maybe it's my Scorpio side kicking in? I would love to marry a male version of my sis. We've talked about it, that it's too bad that we're the same sex & related & not physically attracted to each other, or else we'd go for it! (Hope that doesn't sound weird.) What is equally weird is that my sis was married to an ISTJ as well. She felt contempt for him in the end. Telling an INTJ what to do is not a very good idea. But NFs can get away with a lot since we love you and want you to be happy. You can suggest things or tell us that xx behavior makes you really happy and we'll aim to please

But NFs can get away with a lot since we love you and want you to be happy. You can suggest things or tell us that xx behavior makes you really happy and we'll aim to please

Posted By sbalbom on 20 Oct 2009 10:30 PM
Wait we ENFPs HATE being told what to do too. I think its an N thing. And I don't like telling people what to do. I hate it. I hate giving orders unless under dire circumstances. So I think that ENFP-INTJs don't like giving or taking orders?

I think you are right. I HATE taking orders and I'm not comfortable giving them either.

 

 I just saw this post and was thinking about posting something on the lines of "are you hanging around family for the holidays or bolting out of town?" haha  Gosh, my maternal family is so passive aggressive.  Hanging with them even for a short time is utterly exhausting.  Not my mom so much, but the extended family.  She's been getting healthy over the last year and has grown leaps emotionally.  I think she's seen the effort I've put into getting healthy & wanted to as well.  My maternal grandfather is an alcoholic (sober since his hip surgery 6 months ago for the first time in probably 60 years lol).  Part of me thinks it's a lost cause and I just want to move clear across the country and avoid them all but my mom.  My paternal family is awesome!! A stockpile of ENFPs, brilliant and artistic, a joy to spend time with until I'm all E'd out and need a break for a few weeks.  I didn't grow up with my father or my siblings from his marriage now (2 girls, 1 boy - all three ENFPs).  My dad hasn't taken the MB yet, although I keep bugging him.  I'd venture to say that's ENFPish   So that's definitely genetic.  He might be ENFJ though, will update when I find out.  My mom is ISFP and a pianist.  Dad plays guitar and sings (not for a living though).  I love music and love to sing and dance.  It's really awesome to see how much genetics played in making me who I am.  My mom's nurture though gave me the base for what I enjoy in life though - anthropology and medicine.  She used to take me to the museum of natural history 4 out of the 6 days they were open every week until my baby brother was born and it was too much to take us both for her (she overwhelms easily).  She taught me all the big bones in the body by the time I was four.  I have her to thank for those interests.