Anybody here have an ESFJ parent/family member? How do you reason with them?

My mother is an ESFJ and she just grates my nerves. You wouldn't believe how bossy and passive aggressive she is. Plus she is extremely narrow minded. She is always right and you are a horrible person if you think different than her. Nothing is ever her fault. I usually ignore her or just say "okay" when she says something because she doesn't listen or want to hear your opinion or thoughts. This woman does not have one logical thought in her head. When I try to be myself, she completely judges me and tells me that I have a mental problem or possesed by a demon because I don't listen to her or do things the way people are "supposed" to do them (what does that even mean??? ). When I told her I wanted to be a social worker, she cried and said I was a loser and that I will be changing diapers for low grade people and jobs like that are for people who have no options. I cannot win with her because she also thinks I am not smart in the ways other people are. The funny part is she does not know me at all. We value and see things completely different....she doesn't appreciate artistic skills or anything out of the ordinary. I have been having the worst few years of my life (going through a transitional period), I had to move back with my parents and trying to get my life back on track. Just knowing these people has brought down my spirit and once I get my life together I want to get away from them for my health sake.

Sorry for the rant. (Oh, just wanted to state that I do not think all ESFJ's are like this)

When I told her I wanted to be a social worker, she cried and said I was a loser

The vibe I get from ESFJs is just that they see family as an extension of themselves, especially children....for some, it makes it very hard for them to recognize that their children are independent from them and need the freedom to live their own lives. I'd be slightly concerned over her mental health for some of the claims she's made... There might be some bigger issue on her end that hasn't been dealt with - and maybe she just never developed the maturity to look at other people's points of view. You can't make someone else (especially not a parent) mature up and realize that other people are not around to be emotionally manipulated. The best you can do is just live your own life and get away as soon as you can - it doesn't sound like you'll ever be able to please her, and forcing yourself into someone else's mold of perfection will only make you miserable - plus, you can never satisfy her even if you try to be exactly what she wants.

-hug- Sometimes there just aren't any winners in a situation and all you can do is escape from it. Maybe someday, with some time and distance, she'll realize your value is more than a reflection of what she perceives as a failure to make you into the "perfect" child.

My SJ mom is also very immature and irrational (for a T,) and she never admits she's wrong and is very hard to argue logic with. Do get away from them as soon as you can.

When I told her I wanted to be a social worker, she cried and said I was a loser and that I will be changing diapers for low grade people and jobs like that are for people who have no options. I cannot

That is so silly. A socialworker is a fantastic and rewarding job. You get steady income, you get the challenge and satisfaction of helping people and contributing to society. You get a 401k and health insurance. Honestly I cant think of a more enlightened SJ job! She is not being logical. Also you will have weekends off and time to get a masters and time to raise a family.

As far as industry there will always be poor and needy people and the government never ceases to expand. Also since there will be expansion there will be room for promotion.

How can she be upset that your carreer will be one of helping the poor, downtrodden, children, abused and sick. How noble. You will have the opportunity to positively affect thousands of peoples lives.

I think your mother has other motives.

Bravo I approve of your choice.

Posted By JHBowden on 22 Sep 2009 08:59 AM

When I told her I wanted to be a social worker, she cried and said I was a loser

That's a slamdunk right there. Who says EFJs can't be logical?

LOL

SPs aren't quite so devoted to the status quo. They tend to live more in the moment and take things as they come - which comes off as more flighty than autocratic....for SFPs anyway. I don't know any STPs...but I'd wager they're more absent-minded professor archetypes...in the moment of their thoughts rather than their feelings.

My mother's pretty laid-back for an ESTJ... my dad's an ENFP...and I'm of a mind that you either compromise and accept an ENFP and welcome our little eccentricities with amusement while offering a safe haven for us to return to once we've finished our latest insanity.....OR you never back down and end up driving the ENFP away. My mother is the former. She's also mature and practical.
You can't really have a reasonable discussion with an SJ that's determined their way is it and "lalalalalalala I can't heeear you!!" - but SJs that are willing to at least be accepting of other ideas and other people can allow for a decent compromise that will satisfy everyone, provided it's logical to them.

It's all about phrasing to an SJ. "I quit my job because the boss is a horrible mean jerk who picked on me" becomes "The work environment was hostile and the management was unwilling to address my concerns in the matter"

Posted By sbalbom on 22 Sep 2009 04:23 PM

My ex (SJ) would always tell me, "its not that you are wrong Saul... Its that I am always right!" lol

I think we should get my ex SJ together with your ex SJ! They'd have wonderful power struggles and live happily ever after

(What am I doing wrong after I hit the quote button by the way?? Lol!)

Thanks everybody for your replies.

I try to stay away from her dramas. My relationship with her has always been this way...unfortunately. I've tried everything with that woman...there is no changing her to look at different perspectives or to at least respect differences. When she talks I just visualize her as a horse with blinders on yapping away about nonsense, .

I just don't understand why she can't accept that I am not her nor do I want to be. She's always criticizing my taste or choices. It's just annoying and I have to keep my composure and be the better person ALL THE TIME. If she tries to tell me what's on her mind I probe and show interest in what she has to say. Instead of it going back and forth you know like a 2-sided conversation??  it's just her talking and talking about herself. And when she does make it about me it's her telling me what to do, what to wear, what I should do for the rest of my life, what kind of man I should like, etc. What makes it more over the top is that she has a loud husky voice that just makes it worse. 

Lawd o'mercy!

Just wanted to add that I think an ISTJ/ISFJ is not so much in your face as an ESFJ. I know ISTJ/ISFJ people and they generally don't try to tell you what to do or control you. It's more them suggesting rather than bossing you around. That is just something that I have observed. And with ESTJ's at least make some sense!

I just don't understand why she can't accept that I am not her nor do I want to be

Posted By sbalbom on 24 Sep 2009 02:47 PM
Pysco, you are hitting the quote buttons to much


*quote* and */quote* - create the quote. except replace the stars with brackets.

Sbalbom,

I agree with everything you said. But the thing is...after all this time in her life she doesn't reflect or try to step outside of herself and see how she really is. I know sometimes it hurts or kills you to see how you are, but it's important (imho) to do that in order to correct or acknowledge your faults. For instance, I know I have flaws that I could fix/improve and then there are other things I just accept as is. When it comes to doing something that might be hurtful or disrespectful to someone...it should be something a person works on. It's nothing that can be fixed because it has to be from her. It is what it is.

Posted By electriclady on 23 Sep 2009 01:11 PM

I just don't understand why she can't accept that I am not her nor do I want to be. She's always criticizing my taste or choices. It's just annoying and I have to keep my composure and be the better person ALL THE TIME. If she tries to tell me what's on her mind I probe and show interest in what she has to say. Instead of it going back and forth you know like a 2-sided conversation??  

 

It might be her idea of being nice or showing love to criticize you and trying to make you 'better'. In the eyes of an SJ I'm sure your choices are quite original. I really think it's a good idea for you to distance yourself a bit and lower your expectations about her changing her ways. If she's been like this all your life, what makes you think she'll change? Adjust your expectations and she won't hurt you as much. Your visualization technique sounds good 

And another tip while I'm at it: how about stopping the probing and showing interest in what she has to say? It's worked wonders on my mum. Probing and showing interest is facilitating her monologue. My mum finds it uncomfortable that I'm not very responsive when I talk to her, so she generally talks less about herself and asks more questions about me. 

I've found with SJs that you need to give them the 'recipe' to make you happy. Be very specific about what you like and what you don't like about their behavior. They will take a while to mull things over and then come back to you with a counter argument if they don't agree, or they'll change behaviors to a behavior that you specifically asked for or stop doing what bothers you. (Or they'll at least refer to it, so you understand that the message has come across.) 

Psycko,

You're right. Thanks babe.

You know the thing is I gave up on the idea of having a close relationship with her a long time ago. I was just trying to find ways to deal with her, lol. It is so difficult to be around her at times. But, your advice is spot on. I notice that when I probed (my way of getting a better grasp of information) and tried to understand her train of thought, she got frustrated because she took it as I was trying to break her down. Quite often, she doesn't know why she even believes what she believes. I won't do that anymore. I noticed that with S types (generally speaking of course)...they really mean exactly what they say and like to be listened to and not much of anything else. That's cool with me.
Do you still keep contact with your parents?

...Psyko, replace the lawn mower with the trash or laundry detergent and that is the conversation I had with my mother.

Sbalbom: Unfortunately, I don't have many N's in my life...past or present.