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ENFPs with depression
Last Post 31 May 2011 07:43 PM by JerseyCityENFP. 26 Replies.
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 06 Jun 2010 01:12 PM |
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Normally I wouldn't ask for help but I'm pretty desperate.
As you have probably guessed from my posts I adore my ENFP sister. She is in a lot of pain right now and I think she just needs someone she can confide in but I don't feel like I am doing enough.
About 9 months ago I moved out of the family home to live with my nan. They all think it was because I had been bullied at school (which meant I had to leave) and that I needed to get out of that place. That's part of the reason but there's more to it. I really can't stand my mother. I hide it really well, even my ENFP sister hasn't noticed that I dislike her so much. There's plenty of good reasons for this but I don't feel comfortable talking about it and this isn't about me.
I;ve still remained in regular contact with my ENFP sister and she visits at least once a week. She's a really happy person, always makes people laugh and smile But she's extremely depressed and nobody has noticed and she has begged me not to tell anyone. She is depressed because of the way my mother is treating her. I have found out that my mother is pretty much doing to her what she did to me. My sister will sponteaneouly burst into tears (only around me) and she feels so lonely. She can't talk to anyone else about it because the rest of the family don't seem to be able to understand deep emotions and she feels like she can't talk to my mother about problems because my mother can say really mean things. I don't want to go into what she says as my sister asked me not to say anything and I feel disloyal enough posting this on a public forum but I really don't know what to do.
I want to confront my mother. She even says unkind things in front of everyone. But my mother is super manipulative and if I do anything it will make it worse. It will make life unbearable for me...but I don't give a shit about that...but most importantly it wll make life unbearable for my little sister. I know that if I said something when they got back home my mom would fly into a rage at my sister and be even more resentful towards her.
So I don't know what to do. I often think about taking her away with me. If I had enough money and a stable job etc I owuld let her come and live with me. The whole family are moving into my nan's house with me in a month so she will be with me then (it's a complicated situation. I'm not pleased about it as I moved in here to get away from my mother, but at least my sister will be with me).
I just want to take her away with me but I can't. She keeps having moodswings because she bottles so much up and then releases it during inappropriate situations. Sometimes her behaviour even angers me but I understand why she is doing it. But they all think she is a problem child because that's how my mother pretty much treats her. All she needs is someone to confide in, that's all. I try my best to be there for her but I don't live with her. I also feel guilty for moving out but I had had a nervous breakdown because I couldn't take anymore and I moved in with my nan to recover. I'm so worried that my sister will end up having a breakdown too because history seems to be repeating itself.
I know this post must be confusing. I do apologise. I'm not used to asking for help as I usually figure it out for myself. I just want to know if any ENFPs have experienced depression and how did you want to be treated. Did you act in a similar way to my sister, hiding behind humour and then exploding at strange times? And any advice on what I can do to help her? I want to stick up for her but it's really not a good idea...my mother is so manipulative...or do you have any suggestions on how I can handle that?
Thank you for reading this. I know it is confusing and it all sounds like one big soap opera. |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
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| 06 Jun 2010 02:02 PM |
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You've already pretty much said what she needs....venting. But only talking about it isn't the real solution in this case. What she really wants is to tell your mother how she feels....but that makes her feel guilty and she's not really sure she should. So all of this negative emotion builds and builds and she explodes when it gets to be too much. She cries because there's so much there she just needs to get out, but there's no outlet for it....and again, she feels terrible for having such hostile feelings about her own mother. The stages of a depressed ENFP are as follows: Stage One: ENFP will start feeling a bit lonely and disconnected. They will think it's just a stage that will pass, and will try to ignore it. Stage Two: The ENFP will start feeling even more lonely, this can usually be brought about by having a hard time with family or feeling like they are insecure in their relationships in general. Stage One increases, and the ENFP will start feeling anxious. Stage Three: The ENFP's feeling of anxiousness will become overbearing, and they may feel extremely insecure when talking to other people. They lose the quick wit and charm they used to have. The smile will because more nervous and the laugh will become less natural. They will still be trying to convince themselves it;s just a stage that they are going through and that nothing is wrong. Stage Four: ENFP will most likely hit shut down mode. They will not talk to other people about their feelings or what is going on unless asked specific, prying questions. They will have a really hard time talking to people and feeling like they can relate. They will start coming across as an introvert. Stage Five: The ENFP will be extremely stressed, lonely, and emotional. May start bursting out randomly and be extremely moody. Will experience periods of highs and lows. The ENFP may start crying over something seemingly insignificant. They will do this because there is so much bottled feelings up inside and that may have been the last thing to set them off edge. Stage Six: The ENFP will start lashing out at other people like above, but more extremely. Will most likely show complete and utter disregard for authority. They will also start hurting the people they care about, to make them back off and go away. All the while the ENFP, through the stages, will try to convince themselves that nothing is wrong and that they will get better, and thus the problem worsens. Stage Seven: They will finally admit to themselves that there is a problem but try consciously to contradict it. They will try to force themselves to relax and be wonderful again. They will try to establish the facts- what the problems is, how it went wrong, and what to do. Stage Eight: If it gets worse at this point, the ENFP will not be acting like themselves at all. They will not be thinking clearly, and will most likely suffer from being illogical, irrational, and as well may suffer from extremely headaches. They will give up on caring and will not pay attention to the world around them, instead focusing all of their energy into their inner world of what they feel and dwell on it. They will no longer have any motivation to care or do the things they love. Stage Nine: Your ENFP will start enjoying dark humor ad freaking other people out for the hell of it, especially the people they care about. However, at this stage they will not do this too extremely to the people they care about because their is that small piece of the ENFP that wants to hold the relationship in tact. They will push you away and drag you back in, and become and emotional roller coaster for anyone and everyone around them. If you ask what is wrong, the ENFP will completely shoot you down unless it is in a structured environment and they think that you are somebody that they can trust. However at this point the ENFP will become extremely untrusting, so talking to them about anything is much like walking on fragile glass about to fall apart and break forever. The ENFP will hold grudges. Stage Ten: Complete personality turnaround, the ENFP will have lost it, or will have appeared to. Complete emotional instability and recklessness. They will be completely and utterly impulsive to the point of stupidity. They will not care about their well being or anybody else's. At this point, the ENFP will be so far in their heads it will be nearly impossible to get through to them unless you sink to his or her own level of insanity and instability. They will have given up on life altogether, and will most likely have forgotten what it was like to really feel alive and well again. |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 06 Jun 2010 02:43 PM |
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She seems to be at stage three..bordering on stage four. Yes she does need to tell her mother how she feels. I've been in her position and I still have unresolved issues because I can't tell my mom how I feel. I jus tdon't want her to feel the way I felt...and am feeling. And she does feel terrible for having these feelings towards her mother..I know how that feels too. Thank you for posting that. Hopefully I can somehow stop her from actually getting to stage four =( |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
 Grand Author Posts:779

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| 06 Jun 2010 03:39 PM |
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I too think that there is pain... and guilt. I mean, she feels like she gets well... emotionally abused, but she thinks that her mother wants the best for her, because... well, she's her mother. Because of this she feels guilty. If you want to help her, then you must make her recognize that the guilt is not justified.
Because once the guilt goes away, she can actually let herself feel the pain underneath it, and only then it can go away. Yeah i know, feeling pain is not something we like, but once you actually feel it, and i mean really allow yourself to feel it... then it becomes transformative.
The next paragraph contains an opinion/personal observation, and is not proven yet:
I think a problem with dominant Fe types is their arrogance that the problem is never at their side - it is always someone else who is guilty. They can be really unstable, their unhappiness with themselves turned outwards - not like Fi types, who are likely to turn it inward.
On the other hand, Fe types can be really happy if they feel like they are helping you. If they feel they are 'steering you into the right direction' (wherever that might be) they are happy. They tend to have problems with people who don't want to be 'steered into the right direction'.
Now, if their idea of 'steering you into the right direction' does not match with your attitude that you don't want to be 'steered into the direction of what another person thinks is the right direction' (an ENFP attitude, maybe?), they tend to try harder to get you into that direction. And then, it can get out of hand... said manipulation can occur. And if that does not work... it can get really ugly... the unhappiness with the situation gets turned onto the 'cause' of the unhappiness. And this leads to saying mean thinghs. It turns from nurturer/teacher to manipulator to tyrant. If such an attack comes, there is only one weapon against it. Stay calm. Regardless of what they say, regardless of how they attack you. Stay calm. If you do this correctly, this turns the tables and they recognize that they may be part of the problem. If you attack them back, or get depressed, then you are only feeding their anger - you give them a reason to be angry at you, since you obviously are a bad person to argue with them. If you get depressed, then they see that their manipulation/being mean is working - and in their state, this may very well give them satisfaction - it proves that they are right and that you are wrong.
Oh, and something else - if they want to load the guilt onto you - refuse to take it. Simply say, "no, that's not how it is".
Back to the dealing with pain. We build roadblocks so that we don't see the pain, and we use to block the way so that the pain cannot reach us. This may seem extremely counter-productive, but it works - i know this because i have done this myself. Pain is not something to be afraid of - it is completely natural to be in emotional pain every now and then. I would go that far to say that is even healthy to feel the pain every now and then. Like i said, the guilt is now blocking the road to the pain, so it cannot reach her.
See it that way - if you don't allow yourself to feel the pain, then it will be naggin away at you in the back of your mind. And that is what builds the depression. It's the constant nagging in the back of the mind that is telling you that something is not right - that something does not feel right. There is a saying that if you repress pain, it turns into suffering.
Now, again, you are 18, and your sister is probably younger, and well, here is what i would do if i had a younger sister... (I mean maybe this can be harder if you are younger... i don't know)
Assure her, that, whatever comes, you are at her side. She probably feels really alone now, since she probably thinks her own mother is hostile to her. Assure her, that, however weird and unlogical it sounds what she is saying, assure her, that you will not judge her. This is crucial. If she tells you all, and i mean all, she will probably feel miserable for a time - this is because telling somebody our fears, guilt and the emotional pain we are in makes us relive those emotions. But! Assure her, that you have an open ear for her. That you don't judge her. If she is able to get out all that garbage in herself that lurks in there, and allow herself to feel it, than it will go away.
I believe that you can make it.
Interestingly, once it all has been said, we can change the topic quickly to something more happy - if she does this, then it is a good sign - actually, i think, with us ENFPs, anything is a good sign, if it gets us out of that 'everything is numb' state. (That's part of the reason why actually feeling the pain is important - it may not feel nice, but it at least feels... alive)
Btw, i am not contradicting with what aly said (I really hope i am allowed to call you aly, am i? ) I just wanted to emphasise how important it is to not let it become some garbage that lurks in the back of her mind and eats away at her.
So.. *deeep breath*. Long post... serious topic... Need ice-cream.
"Ice cream, ice cream, lalalala" (Who wants one too?)
Oh no. I don't have ice-cream at my house. Well, then i will take a cold apple juice spritzer instead. Close enough. |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 06 Jun 2010 03:48 PM |
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Thank you, Jan  That has really helped me. I mean it, and I really appreciate that you took the time to write that  |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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ktski  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 24/F Relationship: IM:
 I just joined Posts:9

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| 06 Jun 2010 03:49 PM |
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Being 18 years old, I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you. I have a younger sibling too, and I'm extremely protective of him. You don't need to feel weird about posting on the forum -- if my brother was depressed I'd do whatever I had to to help him. It's the most natural thing in the world.
I agree 100% with alysaria and TheJan -- your sister needs to vent. As an ENFP, she's probably overwhelmed with negative feelings. I don't know how old she is, but as a teenager I would have wanted someone comforting and accepting to listen to me -- someone I could talk and talk and talk and talk and talk to who wouldn't look bored or get sick of listening to my problems. Like you, she's probably feeling frustrated and hurt, and maybe even a little guilty. If confronting your mother isn't an option, she has to let those feelings go some other way. Hence, the inappropriate outbursts. But if she feels like she has someone to talk to, I bet you'll see those outbursts start to subside. The depression might lift a bit, too.
Also, consider sharing some of the feelings about your mother that you usually keep hidden. You don't have to go into detail if you're not comfortable -- but if she knows you're feeling the same way, she might feel less alone. I know you don't live together anymore, but when you can, help her to get her mind off things. Give her a phone call out of the blue. Offer to take her somewhere fun when she comes to visit. You both may eventually have to deal with your mother, but you don't have to live in the chaos she causes 24/7. Most importantly, as an older sister, you can always be your little sister's advocate when conflict arises. She'll definitely feel better if she knows you're there to support her.
You sound like a very concerned, caring sibling. I'm sure your sister feels better just knowing you're on her side.
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| quixote: n. An impractical idealist bent on righting incorrigible wrongs |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 06 Jun 2010 04:00 PM |
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Thank you ktski I give her phonecalls out of the blue but we have to be careful because my mother often tries to listen. And when she visits we spend all day going out, mainly to get away from our mom. But I haven't told her about how I feel. I let it slip a little accidentally but then I cover it all up. I actually feel a little selfish if I tell her how I feel, but you have a point there. Maybe she wouldn't feel so alone if I told her the truth. I worry that I will turn her against her mother...but I think she has done that all by herself with her behaviour. |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 09 Jun 2010 04:49 PM |
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I relate to what your sister is going through. I had a mother who was what I'm guessing to be an ENFJ. We connected in the ENF but her J was really harsh, perfectionistic & unaccepting. That dynamic is probably what caused the most damage of any trauma in my childhood. After I left home at 18 it took me like 10 years to stop having dreams where I would be able to tell her off & stand up for myself. I think, for me, what would have helped the most was having someone to vent to who could validate my feelings & affirm who I was. ENFP's seem to need a lot of affirmation. When a key figure in their lives is continually cutting them down & they do not see a way of escape, this can lead to major depression &/or angry outbursts. I've had depression since before I can remember. It's only been in the last few years of learning how to cope with the trauma of my childhood that I've seen a real improvement. I wish someone had told me growing up that I did not have something wrong with me & that being an ENFP was just as ok as being any other personality type. Best of luck to you & your sister. |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
 Grand Author Posts:779

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| 09 Jun 2010 05:17 PM |
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This is a bit unrelated, but i find it interesting that quite a few of ENFPs seem to have problems with a parent that is they think is an ENFJ... |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 09 Jun 2010 05:35 PM |
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For me, I really connected with my mom in the NF area so it made it unbearable to feel like she rejected me with her J. And since we were both E's who liked connecting it seems we were always either best friends or worst enemies. I hated not knowing which it was going to be on any given day. |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 10 Jun 2010 08:10 AM |
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SlipCore I relate so much to what you are saying! And I'm sure my ENFP sister would too. I am not saying all Fe dominants are bad btw when I say this but Jan's comment made me think of this. I think ENFPs especially will struggle with an Fe dominant in the long term. Fe can make someone lovely if they are healthy but when unhealthy...*shudders*. Fe doesn't not favour the socially unacceptable. With my ENFP sister she often does "weird" things that I personally find endearing and the ydon't embarrass me at all. I do have Fe though so sometimes I tell her to tone it down, but that's usually because she is attracting attention by being so loud and I'm very shy  But with my mother she is almost disgusted at this behaviour and Fe can be quite bullying and discriminating =( Sometimes they don't even realise it and if you told them that you felt discriminated against they would be totally outraged and deny it...because they really can't see why their behaviour is so wrong. In the cognitive processes test I come out as Fe dominant...but I totally disagree with this. If I was Fe dominant I would drive my sister up the wall and we get on so well because we're both dominant intuitves (Ni is a subconscious process so in tests it's hard to answer questions about it because it;s hard to know exactly how it;s used, so that's why I probably score a bit higher on Fe). Not saying that Fe domininats can't get on with ENFPs or dominant intuitives...not at all...but I really do feel that it is tough for an ENFP and ENFJ to relate to each other. her J was really harsh, perfectionistic & unaccepting. This is totally how I have felt all my life. And I am an enneagram type 1 so I am an insane perfectionist...I don't need other people pushing their perfectionistic views on me. And my sister is also a perfectionist (in a different way to me). She is enneagram type 3...so when my mother makes her feel that she isn't enough (especially with school work or something like that) she finds it crushing, as she feels that she is "unloved" because she isn't achieving enough. |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 10 Jun 2010 05:48 PM |
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When I would get an A in school, my mom would say I could do better. In hindsight I think she was just trying to be encouraging. But all I felt was that I wasn't good enough. About the enneagram types & fe, ni, etc., I have to admit that I'm not familiar with those terms. Is there a website where I can get more information? I've seen those words mentioned in other posts as well but (being the ENFP that I am) I have a hard time just reading seemingly endless descriptions of abstract ideas without having it attached to something concrete that is also social & exciting.  KWIM? |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
 Administrator Posts:2938

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| 10 Jun 2010 06:55 PM |
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In a nutshell Fi and Fe are whether or not your feeling is inwardly or outwardly focused. INFJs and ENFJs have Fe, which projects feeling onto the outside world, using it to create bonds and affiliations. Fi, which is what ENFPs have, is inwardly focused and more intent on harmony. >.> |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 11 Jun 2010 03:39 PM |
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I'm sorry SlipCore I didn't mean to bombard you with information. There are articles that you can read but a lot of them are long winded and don't really make much sense =[ I'll have a look around for some good ones though  |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 11 Jun 2010 07:05 PM |
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Thanks, Alysaria. I'm pretty sure I have the Fe. Not sure about my mom though. Are there dark sides to Fi & Fe? No problem, Holly! I'd love to read a light article that helps me understand that stuff better.  |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 12 Jun 2010 10:05 AM |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 12 Jun 2010 04:18 PM |
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Ok, so still not quite getting it. When they talk about Introvert or Extrovert functions, are they using the I & E terms in a different way than what the I & E mean in your MBTI type? So, for me, I'm an ENFP with like 98% on the E to I range. Very extroverted! So why then are my F & P introverted? Are they just using the same terms to describe different things? It doesn't make sense to me! Does this have anything to do with motivation, with what motivates people? Hopefully you're not too confused! And hope you don't mind me hijacking your post!  |
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SlipCore  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 31/F Relationship: Married IM: Posts:100

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| 12 Jun 2010 04:20 PM |
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Oh, & thanks for being sensitive to how you've presented this stuff to me/my type! I feel so honored.  |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
 Administrator Posts:2938

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| 12 Jun 2010 07:45 PM |
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Sorry I didn't really get into as much detail as I would've liked. I was in a rush to post before.  I'll try to be a little bit better here, but I'll warn you in advance that I had my wisdom teeth taken out yesterday, so I may not be fully here mentally. Feeling is what is less defined, and thinking is what is more defined. Consider feeling as a rough sketch, either of the individual or the whole. By contrast, this makes thinking the defined individual or whole. So...because ENFPs possess Fi and Te, we're more aware of the world as definite and ourselves as undefined. We're constantly looking for self-awareness and are often surprised and puzzled by our own actions....whereas we are less so when it comes to events outside of ourselves. It's much easier to explain why another person has behaved a certain way then conclude the same about ourselves. There is a rough framework of the self...and a pursuit of the genuine....so failing ourselves, we become very upset. Extroverted feeling, on the other hand, means that INFJs are much more self aware, but the outside world is less defined. Fe types are usually more puzzled by the actions of others....want other people to make sense (although part of that is Ni as well). There is a rough framework of humanity as a whole....so Fe is more inclined to see people within this basic pattern with variations.....and anyone outside of the framework is labelled as "wrong" and is either cut out or scolded toward correction. ----------------- Extroverted intuition (Ne) is all about possibilities and connections. Think of it as a grasp of the cosmos, all things are connected, and there are limitless options. This is the part of the ENFP that gets overstimulated and becomes more excited about started projects than finishing.... Introverted intuition (Ni) is the inverted version, with every possibility condensed and refined into something more substantial and considerably more probable. If Ne looks at every possibility and considers them all just in case, Ni discards the unlikely and hones in on the most probable, making them almost psychic in their ability to propose a likely end. For INFJs, this is more emotionally honed - making them very good at picking up and analyzing vibes....but sometimes.....especially with Fe types that aren't as mature or don't have enough experience with other types.....this can lead to misinterpretations of ENFPs' behavior and some unpleasant scolding... "for your own good" of course. --------------- I met an INFJ guy during training for my census work. At first I thought he was an INTJ, but I got him talking about something he valued, and he lit up and became so animated....and all of his mannerisms were so much like my INFJ (female) friend. I eventually brought up MBTI and suggested he look it up. Apparently, however, I must've been a little bit too friendly for his comfort and offended him. O.O He scolded me for being too "homey" with people I don't know. I know he meant well.....but he hurt my feelings considerably...much like I didn't mean to offend him, but somehow the way I phrased things didn't sit well with him. Fe and Fi are just different enough that they don't quite communicate the same way. I suppose think of it it this way: Fi is value judgements, constantly adapting and changing as new information becomes available. Fe is more absolute - right is right and wrong is wrong. Both can be *understanding* of different opinions....but ENFPs can consider the concept of right and wrong in a more abstract way.....and even be able to convincingly argue a point they don't believe in than an INFJ can. |
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HollyGolightly  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 18/Female Relationship: Dating an INTP :) IM:
 I just Joined Posts:97

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| 13 Jun 2010 06:36 AM |
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alysaria saves the day And I hope you're not in too much pain =[ I have to have my wisdom teeth taken out soon. I've had teeth taken out before but I heard wisdom teeth really hurt? Or is it just genreally the groggy feeling you get after you've had normal teeth taken out. And SlipCore, hijack away  I've only recently just started to get cognitive functions after about two years of trying ti understand them  They are so confuzzling and most article just ramble and confuzzle even more... I think alysaria has explained it pretty well though |
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| INFJ, 1w2 sp/so. |
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