Has anyone of you ever been called stubborn, or "aggressive"?

I am often feeling misunderstood when people call me that - i don't want them any harm, but i'll admit that i can be very stubborn. I highly disagree with bein aggressive - i am passionate, that is all. Why can't they look on the bright side - it just means that this topic is important to me! Not that i wish to offend them.

Is this Fe? 

So yeah, I would consider them as incredibly stubborn just for the sake of winning an argument.

Sounds like they aren't the only ones.   

But seriously please forgive the way I have started addressing this.  I mean well, so hear me out.   I can definitely be stubborn and although my circle of friends/acquiantances isn't exactly the largest, I know and greatly care for at least 4 tested, certified, bona fide INFJs (one of which was an ex, and another my sister who I am very close with) and if it is one thing that INFJs, INTJs, and ENFPs can have in common is being stubborn, and this can be for very different reasons, but I think it is all tied in with our preference to make intuitive leaps without necessarily knowing all the facts all the time.

Anyway...

INTJs can become stubborn when their thought process/logic/intellect is originally challenged, we will initially rebel sometimes because our sense of self-worth is tied in with our feelings of competency and knowledge

INFJs can become stubborn when they feel that their feelings are not being considered or are wrong. This can sometimes lead to a passive-aggressive streak (in some) as they spend a lot of time trying to make others feel accomodated yet feel belittled or misunderstood themselves, so they can get upset but not want to create waves by feeling upset.

ENFPs can sometimes become stubborn when their integrity or ethics are questioned.  ENFPs, I have found, because they filter their emotions/decisions first through Fi (Introverted Feeling) and THEN through Te (Extroverted thinking) often place an internal value-judgment on the decisions they have made.  This means, that they tend to care about the validity of the decision they have made and admitting that judgment/decision was wrong can call into question their feelings and call into question their own internal value system.

I hope that might help explain a little bit about your friend.  Maybe.  Nobody wants to admit that they can sometimes be stubborn, but I think a lot of us N's are guilty of it on some levels - just as a result of our hardwiring. 
 

Good insights PurpleGiraffe.

@ Avery I really can't think of one person who isn't stubborn on occasion. I'm also wary of wary of extrapolating a pattern out of a case. Please excuse the emotional outburst.

I prefer discussions over arguments and am generally accepting of another's position as long as the position isn't: Substitute my values and beliefs for yours or There is only one possibillity! But I usually prefer to limit my time around these types.

Posted By caprice on 17 Mar 2011 10:23 AM

Good insights PurpleGiraffe.

@ Avery I really can't think of one person who isn't stubborn on occasion. I'm also wary of wary of extrapolating a pattern out of a case. Please excuse the emotional outburst.

I prefer discussions over arguments and am generally accepting of another's position as long as the position isn't: Substitute my values and beliefs for yours or There is only one possibillity! But I usually prefer to limit my time around these types.

But in my case, doesn't ENFP can easily turn a discussion into an argument? Because this has been a consistent pattern with the one I'm dealing with.

Posted By caprice on 17 Mar 2011 10:59 AM
Well that sucks.

But we're all different. Just a shared preference for functions.

Sorry, I didn't mean to generalize everyone in a negative spotlight.

Though I wonder if it's really worth our time to build up a solid relationship between an ENFP and INFJ. The reason why I'm asking this is I tend to feel a great deal of exhaustion dealing with an ENFP as an INFJ. And vice versa.

The reason why I try hard to understand more about ENFP is because I have never felt such strong attraction among other types. Usually I despise people who try so hard to gain attention from others, though I must confess that ENFPs have this innocent charm and wittiness that I strongly admire and adore.

It's really a conflicting issue for me to deal with ENFPs as sometimes they seem to be a God-sent angel, who has the purest intention for everyone to stir a greater goodness in everybody, though at other times I felt they seem to be extremely manipulative to get their message across through pity (that's when they get really emotional). Though overall, I really want our relationship to work in a positive light and that's why I ended up posting here.

P.S.: I enjoy reading your posts Caprice and PurpleGiraffee. It took me a week browsing through this forum before signing up for it btw.

One thing I have noticed about myself is that I have limits on how much I can take emotionally. I feel like those limits are the same as a bridge having a weight limit or a car having a maximum speed. You wouldn't berate a bridge because it collapsed when you exceeded the weight limit. But people somehow expect me to adapt when they exceed my emotional limits.  

I also don't think I am at all manipulative.   I think manipulation is such a horrible thing, I'd hate to think I engage in it.   But, if I feel like someone is pushing me beyond my limits, and I get emotional, and they don't think my emotions are valid, I'll be really mad.   My emotons are valid.  Everyone's emotions are valid. 

I also don't think I crave attention.   I talk a lot and talk too loud, but it's not because I crave attention.    I just get bored and enjoy talking to people.   I also like to be appreciated at work.    But I don't think that's really the same as craving attention either.

I also don't think I am at all manipulative. I think manipulation is such a horrible thing, I'd hate to think I engage in it. But, if I feel like someone is pushing me beyond my limits, and I get emotional, and they don't think my emotions are valid, I'll be really mad. My emotons are valid. Everyone's emotions are valid.

Posted By Avery on 17 Mar 2011 01:28 AM
The thing about this ENFP I know of is that his logics is usually based on his emotions, and it pains me to have any argument with him as he'll never concede to end.

So yeah, I would consider them as incredibly stubborn just for the sake of winning an argument.

Surprising statement coming from an INFJ.  Avery, are you in the UK?

Avery, when you have an argument, from where do you argue?  Emotion, logic, value, honesty, ethics, for another, for yourself?  What tone and decible do you employ?  What is your end goal when you argue?

Do you consider yourself stubborn? If so, how, or in what circumstance?

Posted By Danny on 18 Mar 2011 01:31 PM

Surprising statement coming from an INFJ.  Avery, are you in the UK?

 

Nope.

 

Avery, when you have an argument, from where do you argue?  Emotion, logic, value, honesty, ethics, for another, for yourself?  What tone and decible do you employ?  What is your end goal when you argue?

 

Usually ethics & value, and usually for defending others.

I try to sound not aggressive as possible, but if the argument turns too heated and I don't see it's going anywhere, I usually walk out of it.

 

 

Do you consider yourself stubborn? If so, how, or in what circumstance?

Somewhat. Usually when people challenge or doubt my values unfairly. Or faulty accusations.