That is really my question. I think I have met some enfps in my life, but, I never really got to know one.

When I read that they are my ideal parterns, supposedly, I thought... no way. Impossible. Not in a million years... because I don't associate enfps as people who ascribe a deep meaning to ... anything. Warm, kind, fun, all things nice made out of sugar and spice, but ... could someone get lost inside your head and never have a snowflakes chance in finding his way out of that labyrinth?

Posted By neocron on 21 Mar 2011 11:09 AM

That is really my question. I think I have met some enfps in my life, but, I never really got to know one.

When I read that they are my ideal parterns, supposedly, I thought... no way. Impossible. Not in a million years... because I don't associate enfps as people who ascribe a deep meaning to ... anything. Warm, kind, fun, all things nice made out of sugar and spice, but ... could someone get lost inside your head and never have a snowflakes chance in finding his way out of that labyrinth?

This is where people often confuse ENFPs with ESFPs.  Both fit the "warm, kind, fun" description.  The difference is only really apparent when you get to know us.  ENFPs can appear on the surface to be party animals who are always looking on the sunny side and having fun and flitting from one interest to the next.  You have to really get to know us to understand how much more there is inside.  Not "ascribe a deep meaning to...anything"?  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Deep meaning is what ENFP is all about.  But you won't ever get to know that side of us unless you look beneath the surface.
 

@Jan, I don't want to read into neocron's intent as negative, I think he really is asking us a genuine question.

That depends. What do you mean by deep?

Haha.....I seriously hate the ambiguity of online posting --- it's so hard to tell if someone is being serious or joking.  I tend to make silly faces at the end of sarcastic comments, b/c I know how easy it is to misinterpret things.  Plus I'm gullible as all get out!!

I think you're right in that because we tend to flit from one thing to the next it can be seen as shallow, though I see it more as we have such *deep* amount of interests that keep us constantly on the go!! 

Since we don't research in great detail

I at least (personally) disagree with this.  I think we pick and choose our *battles*, but can in fact be very detailed.  For me, my entire academic world has revolved around research (biomedical research, library science, and genealogy/local history) and not to be conceited, but I'm pretty f*ing good at it!!  Some of it I do find extremely taxing and annoying if it's monotonous - such as a project I'm in the middle of for a professor of mine's dissertation (but she's paying me, and I'll do just about ANYTHING for money right now), but if it is something that I am interested in and passionate about I will throw all my energy into it!  When I was interning in a biomedical research lab as an undergrad my mentor/boss used to have to force me to go home because I was so engrossed in the genetic analyses that my project focused on!

Though I think I have a fairly developed Te, so maybe it's just me

btw, for ENFPs, is it true that they prefer others to be 'deeper' than them? Does having a 'deeper' qualities than themselves help to promote a keen interest, or the opposite for ENFPs?

 

 

For some bizarre reason this question boggles me a bit --- maybe I'm reading it too fast.  LOL.  Or I've had too much coffee today......  WHEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

Boy, and this disagreement turned out to one of the most illogically constructed debate I've ever been involved.

Again, there is 'thinking' deeply, and there is 'feeling' deeply. When you say deep thinking, what are you talking about? Are you talking about pondering the theory of relativity or calculating gravity in your head?

But, when I think of someone as being 'deep', I usually mean emotional depth and empathy.

Posted By AnnaK on 22 Mar 2011 10:56 AM

Again, there is 'thinking' deeply, and there is 'feeling' deeply. When you say deep thinking, what are you talking about? Are you talking about pondering the theory of relativity or calculating gravity in your head?

But, when I think of someone as being 'deep', I usually mean emotional depth and empathy.

oh I meant 'thinking' deeply.

Though with this ENFP, I think he applies emotional depth and empathy to 'deep-thinking' topics AND rationalized it as 'logics'

I hardly want to start a feud, but this behavior often turned up into heated arguments with him because he's so good at 'rationalization' for the sake of winning (at least that's how I preceive it).

Posted By lindzmarie85 on 22 Mar 2011 10:34 AM  

 

Random tangent ---- ENFPs......logical?????

Hmmmmm.......I don't think it's laziness.  If I were to agree that everyone is *capable* of deep thinking, my opinion is that while we all have the intrinsic abilities to think deeply, but if we have not been given the proper stimulation or opportunities to evolve that level of thinking, I don't think a person *is* able to.  

 

And since Ns are more inclined to deep thinking, the real question is which came first (the chicken or the egg --- oops, wrong thread).  Which comes first, the evolution of higher/deeper levels of thinking OR personality type?  I guess, are we Ns, and therefore we think deeper, or do we acquire the ability to think deeper, and therefore we are Ns???

lol, are you saying most ENFPs aren't logical?

I honestly felt they are very good at the skill of debating, though more based on emotions (thus Ns?). But somehow I felt they are extremely good at making it to sound at least logical (it's truly a gift during any conflicts especially!).

I still consider that deep thinking ability is mostly innate quality, and of course this subject matter is debatable.

 I love a good debate.....especially if it is something that gets me fired up --> passionate about.  Then I get totally energized.  But I can't handle debate with people who are either using 100% emotion (and no logic) or simply ignorant and essentially have no clue what they are saying.  Then I get pissed.

I recently posted a fantastic little tirade to a listserv from my graduate program on unionization and recent legislation (haha.....I've probably given away a good hint as to what state(s) I might live in), because it is something that is near and dear to my heart - my parents are both retired educators.  And while much of my argument was fueled by emotions, I led my argument with logic and observation/anecdotes.

Posted By AnnaK on 22 Mar 2011 11:20 AM
I'm sorry to be dense Avery, but can you give me an example of normal thinking and 'deep' thinking?

No problem, Annak! Actually I appreciate for your attempt to engage in this discussion.
 

I'll use his topics for an example...

"Is happiness the point of life?"

or a deeper one: "Is there any place for prudery in modern world?"

I mean for a 15 year old (years back then) these are fairly deep topics, imo.

I consider those two deep thinking topics.

Where as normal topic such as, "Why do people pay tax?"

 I think the difference is everyone *thinks*.  We use brain cells and cognitive processes to make sense of the world around us.  But deep thinking is what I typically refer to as higher level thinking.

If normal thinking is doing basic arithmetic, then higher level thinking is doing calculus.  Everyone can add and subtract.  Not everyone can grasp the theorems of calculus.  Arithmetic is based on simple theorems.....1+1=2.  You can visually see it on a number line and count it on your fingers.  Calculus you cannot see.  It is many complex theorems that one needs to be able to bridge the connections from point A to point B to comprehend.

Normal thinking is what every person possesses from a young age.  It's what we learn in school as children.  It's learning the 3 Rs (reading, 'riting, and 'rithmetic).  Higher levels of thinking require maturity.  It requires one to think abstractly.  Not everyone can reach these levels of thinking because it requires the person to be able to make connections that are not laid out in front of us.  This is why Ns are better at higher levels of thinking.  We can *see* these connections and build those bridges in our heads.