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Fe vs. Fi
Last Post 02 Feb 2012 11:08 PM by alysaria. 29 Replies.
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 16 Jun 2011 01:55 PM |
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So, I have been thinking about Fe vs. Fi lately. It seems like it has been mentioned a few times on the forum lately that ENFPs are private about their feelings due to Fi. I concur. I don't talk about my feelings a lot and am usually more about drawing them out of others rather than expressing them a lot myself. I don't think others would say this about me though because I am very expressive and even dramatic at times. I feel like that expressiveness is more Ne though....not so much my inner most feelings. I react with my environment and manipulate it (not in a bad, controlling way) through expression and drama. I feel like I use this to tell stories and communicate, but it isn't nearly so personal as most people assume it is. Do other ENFPs know what I am talking about? I think we seem like extremely open people, when in reality we are very much in control of how much of ourselves we are actually sharing and have a very hidden, private core.
I'm trying to get a good grasp of this. When I compare myself to my INFJ friend, she is much more introverted. She feels very comfortable around me, but is very closed off to most people. However, since she is comfortable with me, she often dominates our conversations. Most of our conversations involve her talking about her feelings a lot. I enjoy listening and share my inner most feelings much less than does she. Fe vs. Fi, or just unique friend dynamic? |
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ENFPGuy  MBTI: ENFP-Type 7 Age/Sex: M/30/Europe (from Dallas) Relationship: Married to awesome INTJ IM: Lordxred - (aol)
ENFP Tribe Leader Super Admin sbalbom
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| 16 Jun 2011 03:36 PM |
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Yea Nadette, I kind of get what you are getting at. Fi to me is values, feelings, fantasy directed internally. Fe, is caring, understanding feelings of others and feeling what they are feeling. I find that we are emotional but don't let people in to our deepest core. ENFPs seem to have tons of acquaintances that we think are friends. Often we are left with just one or two good friends, while INxx tend to have one or two good friends that they can tell anything to. I also have a good INFJ friend who is the same way. I also feel that Fi is more selfish then Fe. We feel when others suffer but not in the same way as Fe I think. INFJ & ENTP & INTP all share Fe. Its kind of odd when you see it start to develop in the NTs INTJs and ENFPs have the Fi, so more motivated by values I guess, we really just dont care as much  |
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Nick  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: M/34 Relationship: IM:
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| 16 Jun 2011 10:22 PM |
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Nadette - yep, I get what you're talkin about. Drama, music etc is a good way for us to express what we otherwise shy away from.
And ENFPGuy - like! (in advent of a fb style like button.) |
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caprice  MBTI: eNfP Age/Sex: F Relationship: IM:
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| 16 Jun 2011 10:30 PM |
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I've been thinking about this topic as well recently. I can relate to what you are saying Nadette. I always seem to hold back a big piece of myself emotionally despite coming across as very open.
I don't know that I don't care... I think I usually care quite a bit, though if there is a strong value involved which the sufferer has severely violated I may not offer much empathy unless or until they acknowledge that piece in the issue they are upset about. So I guess there is a conditional aspect to it which may selfish. But honestly, the people I have the closest and most meaningful relationships are Fi users for this reason. They don't just tell me what I want to hear to my face then tell someone else what they really think about it (and I see this tendency a lot with Fe users as they speak to me about other friends, family).
I don't experience Fe users as more caring or understanding, though they most definitely are better at saying the expected thing. But this doesn't always come across as sincere to me to be honest. And it also seems selfish in it's own sort of way, like acting to look good. |
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:964

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| 17 Jun 2011 06:20 AM |
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I think we seem like extremely open people, when in reality we are very much in control of how much of ourselves we are actually sharing and have a very hidden, private core.
The thing that I have noticed/seen is that everyone tends to hide a portion of themselves. Fe users tend to do this exact same thing. Only, they tend to focus more on acting nice, saying the right thing, doing the right thing when their happiness/ external cordiality can only be a veil to cover up/mask their hidden selves. Fi users tend to just act bubbly, funny, and/or weird as a method to distract from their own inner pathos - ie., keep the mood light by smoke and mirrors. Fi users, to me, are master magicians by trade. Fe users are harmonious people-pleasers. These are all just tricks/preferences in how to deal with and handle hidden feelings.
An Fe user would say, "Well, I don't 'want' to do Option A. I would rather do Option B. But I feel I should do Option A for such and such reasons because it is D's birthday and I like making/seeing her happy, etc."
An Fi user would say, "Well, I like having D as a friend and it is her birthday, so I would like to be there for her, etc. so I will do Option A. I would rather do Option B, but I do care about D, so."
See the difference?
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
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| 17 Jun 2011 06:31 AM |
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Just wanted to say. Great topic! I don't have really much to say to it myself, but it's cool just reading it.
But i guess Fe's are concerned with being nice because they want to appear as friendly/nice/be very well liked, while Fi's are concerned with being nice because "I should be nice to people as i want to be treated nicely too." Fe just wants to connect with people and looks at what is acceptable/what works, while Fi builds up an internal system for dealing with people - is my perception - no idea if it is right or not. Also, Fi seems to be more concerned with "being yourself" (Te support: "and i'll do what i do even if some people don't like it") while Fe seems to be more like "I will adhere to the social norms and this will make people happy" (Ti support: "because those norms are there for a reason - they work.")
Plus, i think Fi looks upon your own (I) feelings and values, while Fe looks at others' (E) feelings and values.
I guess due to the Fi/Te pair Fi and Te types are more proud than Fe or Ti types. |
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zvezdar  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM:
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| 20 Jun 2011 06:23 PM |
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Definitely agree that we hold our inner feelings very close. The way i look at it is that i am more than happy to speak my mind (ie i am very open with my comments and tend not to hold back), but i am not happy to speak my deep feelings or heart.
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
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| 15 Jul 2011 07:46 AM |
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Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone. It definitely helps me understand better. I really relate. Sometimes the Fe users in my life really annoy me, actually, because the way they act is so duty driven. I'm sure they see me as too blunt and selfish. As Jan was saying though, I super value "being yourself". Reality! You are going to know how I truly feel. I am not going to act the way you want me to act if it is a lie. One thing I think that I have noticed about Fe vs. Fi is that I tend to have a hierarchy of friends, but Fe folk tend to treat all their friends the same. Like, if I have plans to hang out with some acquaintances on the weekend, but then a good friend ends up visiting from far away, I am totally going to cancel the plans with the acquaintances to spend time with the good friend, but Fe would not be willing to cancel because that would be unfair to the acquaintances. Arg. Am I just making this up? |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
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| 15 Jul 2011 09:45 AM |
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One strange thing i noticed, i think my Fe is developing. I don't use it that often and it is still inferior to my Fi, but sometimes i think that "Fe carries out what Fi feels". Sometimes i think that Fe is like "the smile" but Fi is like "why i smile". But it could also be that because i am happy nowadays (Wow! I am happy, yes i just realized it!  ), my Fi is more positive and this somehow brings forth my Fe. My goal at the moment (for self-growth) is that i am going to be a "full NF" (Like having good developed Ne+Ni and Fi+Fe) and a fairly good Te. |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
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| 15 Jul 2011 05:06 PM |
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There's another thread somewhere on here where I talked about how INFJs and ENFPs are functional opposites... And I had a theory about introverted/extroverted T/F. Basically it's that feeling is undefined and thinking is defined....and the introverted function applies to the self while the extroverted applies to the world/other people. So Fi is the undefined self and Fe is the undefined world. Feeling is a rough framework of what is.....for *NFPs that means that you never fully understand yourself. There's a framework called "genuine" that you try to live within. For *NFJs, that changes to other people....you never fully understand the motives/actions of others...and the framework is called "acceptable behavior". For both types, stepping outside of the framework is upsetting...for NFPs, it means losing a sense of self and becoming subject to feelings of shame and self-loathing. For NFJs, it means quietly taking the offender aside and gently scolding them about proper behavior.  |
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Kairi  MBTI: INFJ Age/Sex: 22-Male Relationship: Single IM: robertolisi@live.it(That's my MSN IM)
 I've posted some Posts:22

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| 13 Aug 2011 02:47 AM |
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Nadette,you're not making it up..that's true.
That's exactly the way I treat my friends!I feel like I have to respect social behaviour,and I'm extra happy when everyone is happy,and,if necessary,I can put aside my needs to make everyone's happy.
Yes,that's me! |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
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| 13 Aug 2011 04:30 AM |
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On one occasion, i have canceled a meeting with friends to see another group of friends i hadn't seen in a loong time. I said "something got in-between" (can you say that in English?). Now the funny part was that i met my friends at the very same bar i was going to with my other friends. (The first group changed plans after i canceled). LOL. Shock.
At first it was like: "Hello". Then we both laughed. I then explained why i canceled it and it was ok. Although i had to endure a bit of teasing afterwards from my friends that "somebody else was more important" (which i actually found funny) |
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Nadette  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: 2x/F Relationship: IM:
 Beloved Author Posts:680

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| 14 Aug 2011 06:27 AM |
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For NFJs, it means quietly taking the offender aside and gently scolding them about proper behavior. Oh my goodness, yes! |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
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| 01 Jan 2012 11:18 PM |
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People who use Fe, when making a moral judgement, ask themselves how they feel things should be People who use Fi, when making a moral judgement, ask themselves how they feel People who use Fe often use the moral judgements of other people to justify an act or decision People who use Fi often use their own previous moral judgements to justify an act or decision People who use Fe are hyper aware of others' feelings People who use Fi are hyper aware of how others make them feel (this is the most confusing distinction, as they often lead to the same result) Most Common Positives: People who use Fe are accomodating of others' feelings, and making others feel good tends to be their goal People who use Fi are always aware of how they would feel when treated a certain way. self actualisation tends to be their goal Most Common Negatives: People who use Fe tend to side with the majority, leading them to be the types more likely to act like sheep. Fe users are sometimes bullies because they believe the moral code of the majority is the more important. It's harder for them to be subjective. People who use Fi tend to side with the individual, or themselves, meaning they tend to resist efforts to conform in any way. Fi users are sometimes selfish because they believe what they feel is the more important. It's harder for them to be objective. note: the two functions are mutually exclusive (although the end conclusion is sometimes the same) and every F type faces a decision to go one way or the other in every moral decision/conclusion. 1st function types are more likely to go with one or the other from a young age and show a strong preference, 2nd function types are more likely to mix it up or remain neutral at a young age, but increasingly choose the route most natural to them as they get older. 2nd note: even when Fe types DO side against a majority- it will be because a greater majority (e.g. society at large) or a different majority (e.g. the feelings of friends from childhood, over those of people at a new job) is more important to them. http://personalitycafe.com/articles/63173-fi-vs-fe-101-a.html |
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Entejay  MBTI: ENTJ Age/Sex: XX / M Relationship: IM:
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| 04 Jan 2012 04:38 PM |
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These feeling functions completely escape my mind. Even while I read I still can't figure it out. I find them very confusing. They do not fit any concept. (however I think they should) |
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| If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. — Eldridge Cleaver |
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alysaria  MBTI: ENFP Age/Sex: Relationship: IM: Empress of Random Founding Member
 Administrator Posts:2938

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| 04 Jan 2012 09:30 PM |
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As an ENTJ, your weakest of the four main functions is Fi. These descriptions are more toward dominant or secondary feeling functions.
Introverted Feeling
[For an ENTJ] Feeling is romantic, as the ethereal as the inner world from whence it doth emerge. When it be awake, feeling evokes great passion that knows not nuance of proportion nor context. Perhaps these lesser functions inspire glorious recreational quests in worlds that never were, or may only ever be in fantasy. When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic. Feeling in this type appears most authentic when implied or expressed covertly in a firm handshake, accepting demeanor, or act of sacrifice thinly covered by excuses of lack of any personal interest in the relinquished item. |
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Sean O  MBTI: ENFJ Age/Sex: 23 Relationship: IM:
 I just joined Posts:9

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| 26 Jan 2012 11:13 PM |
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I've noticed that a lot people without an Fe preference tend to see Fe as having a lot to do with appearances, getting along/fitting in at the expense of yourself, people-pleasing, inability to say things as they are, etc... Certainly it can manifest like that but that's not at all what Fe is based on. And I think a lot of the confusion about Fe - which seems like it should be easy to understand because it's so visible, but believe me it can be just as complex as any other function - comes from making too many comparisons between Fe and Fi. I tend to believe that Fe and Te have more in common with each other than Fe and Fi. What Fe and Te have in common is that they're based on organization of the environment. But while Te focuses on organizing tasks and objectives, Fe is about organizing relationships and social/emotional dynamics. The fact is, sometimes what is best for the group is also best for the individuals in that group. Fe tends to ask the question, "What is the purpose of us coming together like this, and how is what everyone is saying/doing affecting that purpose?" Kind of like how Te considers the goal of a project and how elements of that project fit together to achieve that goal. Apart from that, Fe is also about helping people grow beyond their problems, kind of like how Te is about breaking through obstacles to improve your situation. Fi is about growth as well, but in a different way... Fe leads to growth by taking what someone thinks or feels in context with their environment, seeing how the two affect each other, and then either changing the environment or changing how the person interacts with their environment, hopefully in a way that's empowering. Fe growth happens in the context of the environment, whereas Fi growth seems to happen more in spite of the environment. This gives you guys a very strong and consistent inner "anchor", but it can also put you at odds with people and things unnecessarily, without much benefit coming from it. In that sense, Fi is very cause-oriented whereas Fe is much more effect-oriented. And this isn't a bad thing - sometimes I am amazed at how much of an advantage being Fe-dominant gives me compared to people who don't focus on that kind of thing as much. On the other hand, balancing the benefits of this advantage with staying true to my core is more of a challenge for me (being pulled to the needs of others can be a storm sometimes). That doesn't mean conformity though - fitting in and conforming are two very different things, and it has a lot more to do with the individual than with what their function preference is. One of the best things about being Fe-dominant is that I never really have to "conform" in order to fit in pretty much anywhere I go. I feel at home with everyone because Fe always lets me find common ground. It's genuine common ground because it comes from something that's true about me, and also true about the other person. Sometimes this common ground is minor, and basically just leads to small talk... other times it's more significant and leads to a friendship. It feels just as natural for me to fit in with a group of artists as it does to fit in with a group of scientists, because in both cases the fitting in is based on something real. The artists and the scientists each see different aspects of me (because that's what I show them more of in order to relate), but they're still both seeing the real me. I hate not being true to myself as much as any other type, I just approach it in a different way. |
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TheJan  MBTI: COOL Age/Sex: 22/m Relationship: Wouldn't you like to know... IM:
 Grand Author Posts:779

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| 27 Jan 2012 02:39 AM |
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This gives you guys a very strong and consistent inner "anchor", but it can also put you at odds with people and things unnecessarily, without much benefit coming from it. What do you mean with "at odds" and "without much benefit coming from it"? Please elaborate. I have difficulties understanding where you are coming from. |
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PurpleGiraffe  MBTI: INTJ Age/Sex: 28/F Relationship: Jirafa sola IM:
 Philosopher of ENFPs Posts:964

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| 27 Jan 2012 03:19 PM |
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Interesting, Sean O. That makes a lot of sense. It does seem more relevant to compare Fe with Te than Fe with Fi. I wonder then if it is also more relevant to compare Ti against Fi instead of against Te. Hmmm... Both Fi and Ti are internal value systems. Fi is an internal value system basic on ethics and emotion while Ti is an internal value logic system, where things must make sense to the individual user. If we are comparing Fe to Te then this putting individuals at odds without benefit theory does seem to have some merit. Fe and Te are about organizing systems. They are about cost benefit and arranging for efficiency. Fe about arranging people and situations and surroundings while Te is about arranging ideas, structures, and also surroundings. Therefore, if the goal is to achieve efficient interactions then internal feelings are superfluous unless they work with the surrounding area (people or ideas). Or at least this is how it can seem when it comes to Ti or Fi; however with both of these functions the impact is internal, so while an Fi user might not appear to gain value from the developed value function, he or she still does, but at the expense of potentially harming the organization that Te or Fe has created, so each function has to play balancing act with the other to determine decent output levels for both Self versus Outer World without losing power to one of the functions. Otherwise, Fe (in an Fe dom) might overextend itself to organize people around it to the point that it overlooks Ti or Fi (in an Fi dom) might overlook the impact of its surroundings so it overlooks Te. |
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caprice  MBTI: eNfP Age/Sex: F Relationship: IM:
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| 28 Jan 2012 12:52 AM |
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Jan, he's alluding to the fact that you catch more flies with honey which is true. I see the value in Fe and wish I had a bit more of it. Also agree that Fe/Te are more comparable in a sense (as are Fi/Ti) yet Fe/Fi both deal with the humane considerations and end up looking more similar and Te/Ti focus on the more technical considerations and end up looking similar. But everyone has a combo here and it blends together to some extent. |
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