Fe and Fi is something that kind of causes me a huge headache dealing with some people sometimes. You can also make a distinction by one being subjective and the other objective values. Someone with subjective values is often going to be offended by someone with objective values. And someone with objective values is going to be really frustrated with someone with subjective values. 

As a Fe user, I don't think that my values reside in me. I think they reside in the world and I'm just witnessing them. They are concrete things, not opinions. Like, it's not my personal opinion that incest is wrong. I don't care one way or the other. But I can see that the processes that make the world turn round, the social and psychological feedback loops, our culture, society, all these intertwined aspects that feed into one another, that all of these things coming together make it objectively amoral. It's not my value that is being violated, but one that is intrinsic to the fabric of the world. 

Perhaps you could link Fe to consequentialism. The consequences of something make an act bad or not, rather than the act in of itself.

Hey guys Im new here but this seemed like a good enough place to kick off, Im actually pretty new to this whole system, and Im not sure that I can be useful on technical merit. however Neocron the one word that comes to mind for me is 'beautiful" the first time I discovered type theory I dumped it basically up front, since I new I related to Fe, yet Every description I read portrayed Fe as having something to do with conformity, respecting social norms, etc.. and frankly while I have always been fundamentally concerned with social norms I found as a child and continue to find today that most of the "norms" are philosophically, functionally and morally untenable.. "making universal claims, while simultaneously making universal exceptions to those claims.. I have always been deeply, interested in understanding the structure order and reasons why people people behave the way we all do. including what may be societies most deeply unconscious and and therefor our most developmentally regressive and dangerous habit. unthinking conformity

@happy

From that I'm thinking you're an INFJ. A ni-dom system builder. I understand what you mean, and man, you're going to have so much fun learning about sensors eventually. When this whole construct that the MBTI is based on starts to make sense you'll be popping with insights, and that's always fun. The thing is, this perception of dynamics inter-playing like that, it's actually something that most people cannot see. And by most, I mean almost all of them. Like, 95 percent. Going further than that, one of the largest subgroups of the MBTI basically have no predictive ability for the future at all. If it's anything unlike the past - it's bad. If it's different - it's bad. They're generally really good and kind people. I have a lot of love in my heart for them, and for one of them in particular, but seeing the world through their eyes is a vastly different place than I see. Alien, almost. And so very much not complex. The way I see it now, there is a need for the world to be as it is, because comparatively, they are that, unthinking, unquestioning, without a choice in the matter because because they cannot see what seems to be so obvious to you.

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It's up to the people who can see above the here and beyond the now to change the direction of the whole if it needs that. (Thank you Martin Luther King - you rocked).

Unthinking in a ni-dom sense is who they are by their own very psychological makeup. You've been cursed with an awareness that allows you to see behind the curtains in a way that simply sets you apart. It can be a gift, but, personally, I'm a teeny tiny bit bitter about it. What a blessing it would be to just accept things at face value and never feel compelled to ask the never ending stream of whys.

Now, before some sensor comes in here and clubs me over the head, I said comparatively. I think you're totally awesome and the world would be a far, far, far worse place without you. ... hug?

From that I'm thinking you're an INFJ. A ni-dom system builder.

While externally, Im certain the majority of people I know would probably classify me as being introverted. and consequently what I had previosly believed. however I am beginning to wonder to what extent, my apparent drive for seclusion was more of an reactionary and adaptive behavior. given that to this day I continue to seclude myself beyond what I enjoy..

seeing the world through their eyes is a vastly different place than I see. Alien, almost. And so very much not complex. The way I see it now, there is a need for the world to be as it is, because comparatively, they are that, unthinking, unquestioning, without a choice in the matter because because they cannot see what seems to be so obvious to you.

I have to say that generally when people use undefined groups outside of themselves "they" is often fertile ground for projection. and group persecution "sounds suspiciously like ethnocentrism, nationalism or religious affiliation" and im a bit concerned you may unnecessarily interpreted as making the same mistake.

as you mention, I am frequently frustrated with the difficulty of trying to communicate to individuals how each of our individual behaviors, and beliefs is directly responsible for maintaining the worst aspects of the inaptly called "society" and why its necessary that we take responsibility for them.. trying to understand what seems like willful ignorance instead as unawareness is still rather hard to swallow.it seems in both of our experiences of "others" being oblivious does in fact feel rather alien.

Could be. So hold on to your skepticism and find out for yourself. It's going to serve you well

I hope it's ok I post this here. There's a poster on another forum that wondered the same thing about himself, thinking he might be an unhealthy enfj rather than an infj, and in the end, that was the case. He's a pretty smart guy, so maybe this here could be of some use to you:

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/64285-spotting-differences-b-w-enfjs-infjs.html
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/66064-my-thoughts-unhealthy-enfj-seeming-like-infj.html

Posted By neocron on 29 Jan 2012 09:59 PM

Could be. So hold on to your skepticism and find out for yourself. It's going to serve you well

I hope it's ok I post this here. There's a poster on another forum that wondered the same thing about himself, thinking he might be an unhealthy enfj rather than an infj, and in the end, that was the case. He's a pretty smart guy, so maybe this here could be of some use to you:

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/64285-spotting-differences-b-w-enfjs-infjs.html
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/66064-my-thoughts-unhealthy-enfj-seeming-like-infj.html

Those Links were very informative, Thanks for posting these neocron

Im not sure Im comfortable admitting how much I can relate.. and given the crazy amount of  counter rationalization that is going on in my head right now.. it seems I may need to spend some time looking at this.

 Most of my disagreements with Fe users have been over something we agree about 99%.
For example, let's say we both agree that we love yellow balloons....but the Fe user asserts that ones with words printed on them are awful.

Me: -shrug- It depends on what it says, what the font is, what color it is, etc....
Fe: -stares in horror- No, no. Any font is terrible on a yellow balloon.
Me: Have you seen every possible text ever written on a yellow balloon?
Fe: No, but I've seen enough to know it's just awful.
Me: There could be some you haven't seen that aren't bad
Fe: There aren't.
Me: There could be *one*
Fe: No. Text is always terrible on a yellow balloon.

And the conversation continues pretty much the same way from then on... XD I have an ENFJ sister and an ISFJ sister....and sometimes it makes me want to tear my hair out.