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Understanding Te???
Last Post 06 Jul 2011 10:50 AM by PurpleGiraffe. 22 Replies.
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jjbanadas 
MBTI: INTJ
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| 01 Jul 2011 06:45 PM |
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Hello.
I am confused about the function theory aspect MBTI. Being an INTJ*, I don't understand how I can have Te (extroverted thinking) when I am a introvert? I have read a few forum posts ( http://webspace.webring.com/people/...re/jft.htm  but I just need some further explanation. Thanks.
* I realise this is a ENFP forum. For some reason I cannot register and login to the INTJ forum. |
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neocron
MBTI: infj
Age/Sex: 29
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| 01 Jul 2011 07:32 PM |
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Hi there  Sure. It's really easy when you think about it. This particlar function is extroverted, and it concerns how you see the world, not how you gain energy (alone or with people). So, the difference between extraverted thinking and introverted thinking is that you use a logical system to make sense of the world, to put order into the world. Everything makes sense to you via a rational system of arranged facts that you believe. For instance,... have you ever seen Firefly? There is a scene in there where a girl comes across a bible, and she begins to correct it, imposing her sense or order and reason onto the world outside of her. Someone with Ti would be more likely on the other hand to put order into their own heads, instead, sorting, arranging systems of ideas into a rational logical system of believes. I might be off about this... hm. If I am, someone will correct me soon. I can tell you that I am very introverted, but have an Extraverted Feeling function. That means that while it takes energy for me to be around people, I also have a need to express how I feel to the outside world. I cannot ... keep them inside of me. That would be very, very hard work for me to accomplish, and often leads me to be frustrated and unhappy. |
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jjbanadas
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: Male
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Posts:12
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| 01 Jul 2011 07:47 PM |
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......thanks for your reply ......but I am still not sure....
how about if I approach it from another angle...
I know INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se...............why can't the first two be Ne Ti ?? What are the rules that give it this particular config.
How do they determine the .....Fi Se for the last two??
I assume you need both functions to be introvert and extroverted in order to balance or enable the flow of information from the inner to the outer world (to be able to operate in the world). Is that correct??
Thanks. |
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neocron
MBTI: infj
Age/Sex: 29
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| 01 Jul 2011 08:02 PM |
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If you click on member videos in the little bar at the top of this website, there is a link to ENFP videos in there. Someone awesome (I don't know who you are, but you rule) made a video that clearly describes every single function and how it works. I think you will have a very good chance of finding the answer you seek in there. If you do, tell us, I'm really interested if it helped an INTJ as much as it did me |
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jjbanadas
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: Male
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| 01 Jul 2011 08:36 PM |
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I have seen these videos before....yes, they are very good.
However, they don't really answer my question.....I really hate being an INTJ.....I am not dumb...but it sometimes takes a long time to get new concepts.
My question is more concerned with the logic behind sequence the letters and whether they are i or e.
Thanks anyway. |
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neocron
MBTI: infj
Age/Sex: 29
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| 01 Jul 2011 10:38 PM |
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I understand now what you are asking, but the highly technical nature of your question makes me the worst person in the world to help you find an answer. I do hope you will have luck on your search. |
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TheJan
MBTI: COOL
Age/Sex: 22/m
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| 02 Jul 2011 01:53 AM |
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Hello^^
With INTJ, it is like this:
first, your innermost letters are NT, that means your first two functions are an N and a T function. Now there are "judging" and "perceiving" functions - judging are T and F, and perceiving are N and S. Judging functions are making decisions and "bring order to the world". Perceiving functions are how you get information. Now, as an INTJ, you are a J (opposed to an N). That means that your jugding function is extroverted. (This is because J people like to make decisions in the outward world, while P people like to get their information from the outward world first). The other one is automatically introverted.
So now we have TeNi or NiTe. The I in INTJ says that the introverted function is the dominant one. So it is Ni -> Te. The other two, Fi and Se, are the inverse functions of Ni and Te. They are like the counterparts to those functions - balancing them out. The first function (in your case Ni) is best developed, then the second, the third... the fourth function, in your case Se, is always the worst off. This strength of Ni and weakness of Se leads to INTJs and INFJs often seeming to be "inside their head".
Your Ni is basically ideas in your head. (as far as i understand it). Te brings these ideas to the outer world - coming up with a way to use them, how to best apply them. Fi looks if these ideas fit into your value system. And Se looks if there is any factual information (not ideas) in the outside world - this can be as simple as recognizing the world around you. |
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jjbanadas
MBTI: INTJ
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Posts:12
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| 02 Jul 2011 02:47 AM |
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Thanks...
But.....say for INFP.......based on your logic.....why is it not Ni, Fe........(I know it really is Fi Ne).
Why is F the dominant fuction for this type?
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TheJan
MBTI: COOL
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| 02 Jul 2011 07:13 AM |
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Ah^^ i made a slight mistake. I wrote "you are a J (opposed to an N)" but i meant "you are a J(opposed to a P)"
INFP are a 'P' type. That means the perceiving function (N,S) is the extroverted function. That makes the judging function (F,T) automatically introverted.
So their two dominant functions are Ne and Fi, just like with ENFPs. But since INFPs are introverted, their introverted function is the dominant one(Fi Ne Si Te) ENFPs have the extroverted function as their dominant function (Ne Fi Te Si)
Because they only differ in their arrangement of the functions, they are very similar, but INFPs are really hesistant to act, or may be oblivious as to how to actually apply their ideals (inferior Te - the 4th function is also called the inferior function), and ENFPs often overlook small details, or forget stuff (inferior Si) |
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PurpleGiraffe
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
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| 02 Jul 2011 03:05 PM |
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I really hate being an INTJ Don't ever hate being yourself...especially if your self is an INTJ.  Te = extraverted thinking. It uses logic to look at gaps or lapses in sequence in actions, events, conclusions, etc. Ti = introverted thinking. It uses logic to analyze and classify things and put them into a correct sequence. Te asks, therefore, "does it work?" Ti asks, "how does it work?" |
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caprice
MBTI: eNfP
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| 02 Jul 2011 11:10 PM |
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I assume you need both functions to be introvert and extroverted in order to balance or enable the flow of information from the inner to the outer world (to be able to operate in the world). Is that correct??
I think that's probably accurate. In any event it seemed to play out anecdotally over and over again when Jung, then others, assessed function orientation. TheJan gives a good overview to the assigning of letters in sequence.
Do you believe yourself to be Te oriented? |
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TheJan
MBTI: COOL
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| 03 Jul 2011 06:24 AM |
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Te asks, therefore, "does it work?"
Ti asks, "how does it work?" Really? I thought Te was more like "how can i make it work?" I mean it is a extraverted jugding function, meant to operate in the world? (meaning, Te has the determination to actually MAKE it work, whileTi wants to ANALYZE how it works?) |
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jjbanadas
MBTI: INTJ
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| 03 Jul 2011 06:40 AM |
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Thanks to all who posted for their comments. It really helped. |
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ENFPGuy
MBTI: ENFP-Type 7
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| 03 Jul 2011 07:42 AM |
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Ok, let me see if I can explain some too. When you look at someone being an INTJ forget the letters. They mean nothing and are confusing. What you should think about is the functions and only the functions. Or rather, the functions are reflexes and this how people usually respond to stimulus.
INTJ are now Ni, Te, Fi, Se (with other functions that are not used often.) Enfps = Ne, Fi, Te, Si
As you get older you get better at using other functions because you are forced to. example, I'm an ENFP but work in finance sales. That requires a lot of T and Fe. I've had to develop those. My dad is an INTP, to get along with people he has had to develop his Fe etc.
Since (intjs) are very good with Ni, they are introvered. But if you notice ENFJs also use Ni, ENFJs are Fe Ni Se Ti. Ni is a function that judges? Why? it gets truth from its self. Si is the same way. Intutives use N, so when they judge they judge with N. Sensors judge with Sensing. Sensors who have Si, are Js. example ISTJs Si, Te, Fi, Ne.
As an INTJ you have Ni, you get truth from your self so you are able to be a judger, want to come to closure. ENFPs get truth from outside intuition, or Ne, or connections and relations. This is why ENFPs seem to be out in the world more then INTJs. When they are only leading with their primary functions they act like the stereotype.
Your second function is the Te, "Making the world around you logical and orderly" Since you are concerned more about how ideas and things function in making a world more orderly you are less concered with properly classifying or making perfect then an ENTP or INTP, who both have Ti.
I hope this helps too
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PurpleGiraffe
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
Relationship: Jirafa sola
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Posts:964
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| 05 Jul 2011 08:31 AM |
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Really? I thought Te was more like "how can i make it work?" I mean it is a extraverted jugding function, meant to operate in the world? (meaning, Te has the determination to actually MAKE it work, whileTi wants to ANALYZE how it works?) I say "does it work" because "how can I make it work" is more active and requires the foresight to understand if it can work. (I say this as an INTJ). Te in an ISTJ can/will function a little differently just as Te in an ENFP will also function a little differently. Ni connects the patterns of the ideas and Te asks 1.) does it work from the patterns provided and then 2.) can I make it "work." Because, in my understanding, to just ask "can I make it work" means that I have to follow with the pattern that if I can make something work then I, therefore, have to take the next step and make it work. Te in an ISTJ, for example, does not generally function with the "does it work" first step. It is much more "how can I make it work" oriented. That is not to say that ISTJs cannot and do not often ask about the efficiency of a system and whether it works, but that Si isn't as focused at looking for improvements as Ni might otherwise be. Te in an ENFP might function more along the lines of 1.) does it work and 2.) do I want to make it work (ie., does it fit into my value system to make this work), because the thing we have to remember is that we aren't really just looking at Te but how Te works in practical application within people. Te might appear in both ENFPs and INTJs but that does not mean that Te actually functions in exactly the same way because the functions of the individual Te user would change with the way the data is processed internally. |
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TheJan
MBTI: COOL
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| 05 Jul 2011 09:52 AM |
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That is very interesting what you are saying PurpleGiraffe. I always thought about Te as the "how can i make this work?" as i think in ENFPs the thought pattern would be:
Ne: I have seen something interesting and this fired up my imagination and because of that i have an idea. This inspires me.
Fi: Does this idea fit to my values? (Do i want to make it work?)
Te: How can i make this idea work?
Fi is the filter function here. I thought about it as a proceed-do not proceed function. Manytimes, in unhealthy ENFPs this is underdeveloped or dependent on Ne (Fi says yes to everything Ne says). Sometimes we ENFPs become "hyper" and then just do things as they come to our mind - and we may regret them later.
Let's say you are right - what part of me is then always asking "how can i make this work?"
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PurpleGiraffe
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: 28/F
Relationship: Jirafa sola
IM:
Philosopher of ENFPs
Posts:964
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| 05 Jul 2011 10:34 AM |
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Ne: I have seen something interesting and this fired up my imagination and because of that i have an idea. This inspires me.
Fi: Does this idea fit to my values? (Do i want to make it work?)
Te: How can i make this idea work? This is probably closer to the truth for ENFPs. However to an INTJ, "can I make this work" IS often the same thing as "how can I make this work", because if we can make something work and it makes sense to do so, then we will seek to find a way to make it work, and asking "how" is kind of already thrown in because we will work to get it done if we can. Let's say you are right - what part of me is then always asking "how can i make this work?" That would also be Te. INTJs don't tend to have this filtering fuction of necessarily knowing whether we want to do something or not - until they have put in plenty of time into developing Fi. It kind of just boils down to can it work and does it make sense to work and then how can we make it work. It is only after our plans fail that Fi comes in to play and we become disappointed because of the failure in our planning. That is why, such sudden changes in plans can have such a drastic effect on us, because we don't have a filter to help us understand that we are very invested in something working until after the plans have failed or until after the plans have suddenly changed. |
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TheJan
MBTI: COOL
Age/Sex: 22/m
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| 05 Jul 2011 12:18 PM |
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Ah, i understand, PG! Thanks |
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Rogarn
MBTI: INTJ
Age/Sex: M 19
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| 05 Jul 2011 05:41 PM |
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Okay, I love this kinda discussion. To be a balanced personality, everyone needs a side of them that deals with their internal worlds (INTJ's have that very well developed), and the external world. Now then, when an INTJ doesn't have a well developed Te, they are REALLY socially awkward(what we typically expect of INTJ's). However! your Te is still necessary, and is your secondary function because you MUST deal with the external world(or else you go to the loony bin, you know who I'm talking about.. yes, you!). okay, so you want to be normal and say you will deal with the outside world in a more normal way.. this doesn't mean you have to be all sunshiney like an ENFP, you just have to say to yourself, okay.. if I bight their heads off, it might cause me unnecessary productivity in the future, however, if I am courteous and concise in my statement, I may be able to walk away in a timely fashion and save my social standing.
“A good way to visualize the difference is to think of the dominant process as the General and the auxiliary process as his Aide. In the case of an extravert, the General is always out in the open. Other people meet him immediately and do their business with him. They can get the official viewpoint on anything at any time. The aide stands respectfully in the background or disappears inside the tent. The introvert’s General is inside the tent, working on matters of top priority. The aide is outside fending off interruptions, or, if he is inside helping the General, he comes out to see what is wanted. It is the Aide whom others meet and with whom they do their business” (Myers p, 14)
From my favorite book. You need to think about every trait as a piece of you. Your ability to use each trait defines who you are, and the more fluent you are with all of them, the more stable you will be as a person.
I suppose it's about time I posted my report I did for English. I haven't touched it since class, and I consider it unfinished. Maybe I'll just go ahead and post it and see what you think. You all are probably more acceptable of flaws in logic then the INTJF... <.< *hates the INTJF with a burning passion* |
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sharshur
MBTI: ENFP
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| 05 Jul 2011 10:01 PM |
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OK, I am not an expert. My brother is an INTJ, and once when I got out of the hospital (where I was for a week), I found that my phone was stolen, which had my credit card info attached to it (Android phone). Anyway, I started thinking about all the stuff I needed to do with school and with the bank and the phone company and everything, and I was listing everything out loud and saying "OK here is what I have to do immediately, in this order, then this and this and this" etc. He said that was me using my Te. Hope that helps. I am not big into the theory... |
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