Post here when you can't sleep...

 

I'll start. It's 4am (at least in the part of the world I live), and I have to work tomorrow, and I can't f#$king sleep! F#$%&! Well, guess I'll be calling in for a sickie tomorrow.

I could tell you about the problems running through my mind,, but I don't wannoe. Not right now. So instead, I think I just write random stuff.

I think the economic situation in the US and Europe is krazy. I can't get over how much debt the US government is in. Something like 14 trillion bucks, or $46,000 for every man woman and child. That is nuts! In Australia, we only have debt of around 10% GDP (compared to 93% in the US). I realise that the current resession has had a hit on government finances. But what I think is dodgie is that before the GFC, the debt was about 63% of GDP. Why did the folks in power ever think that borrowing to the hilt was a good idea?? Hmm..

Well, it'll be interesting to see where the world is in twenty years. Will China be flushed with cash... and weapons? Will the US and Europe be back in black? Will China be democratic and no longer a one party state? Apparently the spread of Christianity is pretty big in there. I've heard that after years of people being force to only follow atheism, they're now hungry for spiritual food. So,, will the spread of Christianity bring about a more subdude government? I hope so! But I've got a nagging feeling the communist won't leave without a fight, which is sad.

Anyway, I'd better leave it at that. Have a good one!

Ugh, I feel your frustration. It is so annoying when the mind/body won't cooperate with your plans. Hope you got to sleep.

Yep same here, right now it's 5am local time here. Do other ENFPs always push the body clock and end up staying awake a little later each night like me? I have so many thoughts in my head that I can't even go to sleep unless I am physically tired, be it from exercise of a huge need to sleep.

Well, it is 1am local time here and i have been trying to sleep for approx. 1 hour. Well. I got up again - it makes no sense to be turning in my bed. Maybe i will find some goodnightsleepstories in the Internet.

I barely slept myself last night. I feel your pain.

Thanks team.

Do other ENFPs always push the body clock and end up staying awake a little later each night like me? I have so many thoughts in my head that I can't even go to sleep unless I am physically tired, be it from exercise of a huge need to sleep.

Yeah, I push the body clock.. Stupid body clock! Be more fun!

Ouch, I feel your pain, literally today. I got about five or four hours last night. I've been known to show up at work on two hours. I get anxious about being anxious and not being sleepy. Which leads to, you guessed it, no sleep. Right now I'm on this forum so I don't asleep and screw up my bedtime. :/

Cheers guys. I often don't sleep till 3,4,or 5 and while there are different types of insomnia, I definitely have the type that involves my mind racing with thoughts once I shut my eyes, skipping from one idea, tangent or anxiety to the next at a rapid pace that keeps my brain buzzing and heart-rate high into the wee hours. Hmmm could this be an ENFP thing??? Anyhow I've more or less overcome this problem lately with a mental trick and if anyone is interested I'm happy to explain further. Cheerio

I'm having trouble getting to sleep....it was my birthday and I guess I still get a little excited. ^_^ I had some speech-y type thoughts running through my head, so I'm going to write them down and maybe that will help me be able to sleep.

Stubbornness is not defined by type and pride is not exclusive. I think that what is important to you is based partially one what is trained and partially on what is experienced and learned firsthand. Too much discrimination leads to isolation within a "same" social group and stunted intellectual growth - you can't develop as a person if you never accept anything beyond your own views. Too little discrimination leads to ineffectual impotence of thought - an inability to act for fear of not being able to please everyone. It's all about the Golden Mean. A balance of acceptance and personal values. It's ok to not accept every idea or person - some people are toxic, exploitative, or just wrong and what they have to say is equally so.

Posted By alysaria on 09 Dec 2011 11:42 PM
I'm having trouble getting to sleep....it was my birthday and I guess I still get a little excited. ^_^ I had some speech-y type thoughts running through my head, so I'm going to write them down and maybe that will help me be able to sleep.

Stubbornness is not defined by type and pride is not exclusive. I think that what is important to you is based partially one what is trained and partially on what is experienced and learned firsthand. Too much discrimination leads to isolation within a "same" social group and stunted intellectual growth - you can't develop as a person if you never accept anything beyond your own views. Too little discrimination leads to ineffectual impotence of thought - an inability to act for fear of not being able to please everyone. It's all about the Golden Mean. A balance of acceptance and personal values. It's ok to not accept every idea or person - some people are toxic, exploitative, or just wrong and what they have to say is equally so.

 

Hello. Just want to add something to your train of thought. I think stubborness is good if someone tells you to jump of the cliff to your certain death and you refuse to do so. There is no golden mean in this. You cant argue that you might save your right or left leg upon impact on the ground, since it is random. Ok, without too much antogonizing your idea, I think life is a journey. Whether you are poor or rich, you get a unique path to walk on. Maybe being poor is a good idea, because it helps to conquer fear? I mean when a person has nothing to lose, that person will experiment with alot of things. Many of those would be opposed by stubborness of the rich person, and in return, never experienced. Is it a loss? It is. Once you experience danger and victorious about it, it becomes intuitive part of you. You become a new person. So basically saying, people should see beyound stuborness without losing what the stuborness represent. It's a defence mechanism. And it has a good reason to be there. Therefore it should be counted during planning. Only if the benefits outwheight the losses should the stubbornes discontinued. Thats, that if...if you have a choice.

Yet if someone told you "OMG GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THAT FALLING ROCK!!!"....stubbornness would not be in your best interest. The golden mean means using critical thinking to discern whether another person's suggestion is in your best interest. In some cases it is in your best interest to take the advice of others....and other times it is not.

Logically you are right. Using critical thinking will lay a path to follow on. But critical thinking is limited by the knowledge that you possess. You can't think outside of what you don't know. Maybe getting hit by the rock (metaphorically) is better than not. It might teach you one thing or two. I personally don't do it myself. I let people do it for me. If someone says "getting hit by the rock is good", then I say "what the hell, might as well just try that one". And sometimes it works, even though critically getting hit by the rock was faulty idea.

Again, what others say may not seem as best to your idea, but in reality it is. You just don't know it yet. Sometimes you have a choice to make a choice, sometimes you don't. What matters is what you have in stake of loosing. Some people have too much to lose, some others don't have anything at all. And depending on that, you come to different outcomes. Different outcomes that you can master. Hence, know. Otherwise, you are limited by your own circumstances, and knowledge is limited.

Basically, action has it's own wisdom. Whether you realize it or not, that's a different story.

Objectively, you can argue absolute truth, but if we were omniscient, the point is moot. Knowledge of everything would make conversation of any kind pointless. I can't imagine how dull it would be to know everything. -.-

It's still your choice whether or not to critically analyze what someone tells you. If I told you that the sun was really a giant flaming chicken that reverted into a moon-egg at night....you might believe me, you might not. Blindly accept it and help me sacrifice children every full moon so the chicken will hatch again on the morrow.....or risk being smote by the fiery wrath of the Sun Hen...? You have no objective knowledge that I'm full of crap....and you can neither prove nor disprove my statements because I will always have an explanation for any inaccuracy. Self-preservation says that it's better to be safe than sorry...but morality says that it is unquestionably wrong to kill children. What do you do?

At some point of time, people, including me, with a strong possibility might believe you. The only reason why people won't believe you today is because we can reason out with some knowledge base the falsehood of your statement. Not because of lack of blind faith. People still blindly believe in certain things without a proof. Therefore, personal criticism of what is right and what is wrong is as moot as me telling you what's objective truth look like. What I'm trying to point out is the fact that there is truth beyond our current belief and experience and that we should not ignore the power that they hold. And the only way of reaching that truth is by not limiting ourselves to the understanding that we currently have. In other words, to simplify you, and basing on your example of Sun Hen, what I try to say is this: People should try to sacrifice their kids once or twice to see what changes. If it does not change anything, then it as moot as in terms that it changes something. At the end, you find the objective truth that was previously beyond your belief or knowledge or experience, even if it somehow was against what you thought was right before. It's a bit extreme example I know that, but principals still hold the truth. After all, the only truth that we know are the ones that we experienced after all. If 2+2 means 4 and can be proven in action, then your lack of understanding it is irrelevant. Same with this. If things outside of your control somehow work, they are part of truth. Only this time, the truth that you don't understand. And you cannot judge what you don't understand. You just accept it. And move on.

 

http://www.lermanet.com/deprogramming/five-steps-to-create-a-cult.htm

Posted By alysaria on 22 Dec 2011 02:59 AM
http://www.lermanet.com/deprogramming/five-steps-to-create-a-cult.htm

 

Heh. I just read a few paragraphs and decided to not bother reading it all as I have decided that I got your point.

 

Perhaps having a faith isn't such a bad thing especially if it works. I think there is another side to this. If by cult you mean beleif in something superstitious or divine, then I think this is not what I mean. I don't say that I have God given power or some supernatural power that makes me almost everything right. What I try to say that I have experienced that certain things just work, provided with enough hard work. Even though it looks ridiculous at the beginning, it works in the end. It's like saying "ends justify the means". And no, it's not supernatural. It's just the result of our limited foresight, since we are not able to see the whole truth.

The difference between belief and a cult is the "clique" that the cult becomes. Everyone inside of it is special and somehow better....everyone outside is the evil other. They have a leader who is always right and punishes the followers because they can never attain the leader's level of enlightenment and understanding. People are broken down....punished for being different, embraced and reassured for every act that matches that of the cult. Those who leave are considered traitors and turned against with violence and venom. And jargon...every cult has its own buzz words that don't make any sense to anyone not part of the group. It doesn't even have to be overtly religious either - it just takes someone charismatic and convincing and enough people to create that initial "family."

Any type of human organization with the same purpose in their mind could be considered cult in that case. Even corporations. Everyone inside a corporation is better...oh wait we have a word for that...we call them professional! Aren't that mean they are "better"? It is. Everyone outside is evil. They will try to rob you. They will try to outsmart you. They will try to take your jobs. They will try to put lawsuits to you. They will try to steal your workers. And what corporations do? They just put that "evil" curtain over each other corporation and call it a day. Corporate CEOs usually act like nobody is as smart as them. You can challenge them at the cost of loosing your job. They act as if they know the better. After all, they are CEOs. They will punish you because they can. Hell, they even punish countries because it's fun. They act like they are omnipotent. Nobody agrees, but it checks out to be true. Those who leave also considered as traitors. What if they take all the company secrets to another company? Sometimes people get killed for that. Or being threatened to not leave companies. Or being trailed with lawsuits. That's a punishment. Most definitely worse than getting beaten up. The jargon? Have you heard about company secrecy? Oh yeah, I'm talking about "company secret". Yeah nobody can know this. It's our intellectual property. And so on, so forth. Yes and most companies are family company originated. Why? Because it takes less convincing family members that there is 2500 libs gorilla in the room that nobody else wants to deal with.

Some corporations could probably be classified as such, especially ones that isolate their employees in designated residential areas with other employees. Social isolation is the biggest part of a cult - you can't have an opportunity to start to doubt the "truth" of the group.

Posted By alysaria on 23 Dec 2011 11:19 AM
Some corporations could probably be classified as such, especially ones that isolate their employees in designated residential areas with other employees. Social isolation is the biggest part of a cult - you can't have an opportunity to start to doubt the "truth" of the group.

 

Think of it like this. When survival is the goal, everything else is secondary. Cult like or not, what works is what matters. Because at the end of the day, this is what is going to save you. Of course it is not just applied to the survival. It is applied to everything else too. Business, relationship everything. You focus on what you get. At the end, we all die alone.